staffies and pitbull's history

Exactly my thinking also, the best breed on the planet, came from England and no matter where it ended up or how many were produced anywhere after that, it doesent change his origin & heritage

 

Activeirish, what are you active with ?Have ever seen a APBT or a SBT, you don't seem to know anything about these dogs, I expect a anti to come out with the statement you made above

 

if someone was not satisfied with the bulldogs fighting abilities they would not go cross it to another breed they would simply use another family of bulldogs. if someone today breeds tight chinaman dogs and he feels his dogs are lacking something does he go breed to a terrier ? lol no he goes to find something else from that line thats bred different from different dogs.

fact is the history was written by show people who actually think the the so called English bulldog that pug cross thing is the real bulldog.
so to them its logical that it was not agile ect. they are idiots.

the apbt is the original Bulldog look at this old artwork you can't tell me these are not the same as the modern apbt.
These dogs contain no terrier blood just the same as the dogs today.
artwork from 500+ years ago


close up

 

Maybe so but how much damage can a lion do with one swipe of a claw?
I'm sure there isn't a man here who'd pit his dog against a hyena? it takes a pack of them to drive off a lion, often the lion will kill at least one or two of them and yet as we know the hyena has a harder bite than any other canine and their totally wild with massive neck muscle, their whole head/neck and shoulder area is extremely strong and developed for killing, bone crushing biting power.
2 or 3 of them will not face a lion, they will only do it in packs of maybe 5 or 6 or more, so is a domesticated dog willing to have a go game or not?? i'd say very much so.

 

going by the size of the horses and humans, i would say those dogs are well over 80 lbs. romans were known to have mastiff (not the mastiff of today) decendants to fight along side with them. with this i dont want to agree or disagree witht the idea of where the pitdog came from, but those arent necessarily the untouched forefathers of are staffords and apbt came from

 

You expect an Anti?? you're the one doing the Anti's, go back to page 31, the red stafford is my current dog, and to answer your question, I've kept staffords, sometimes a pair but more often just a male for 30 years, and I have friends who kept staffs and some very fine pitbulls which i've been around quite a bit in the past, your question is now answered without an Anti or insult.

 

Its ok activeirish, none of us know what we're talking about. Google them again to remind urself of what they look like cos I keep forgetting it too. Oh before I forget, are u going to the dodo show on? Iv heard there are a few really nice american ones coming but don't know who's judging. I dunno if I'm gna go cos there's two equally matched flying pigs gettin scratched the same night

 

Another of my dogs, just previous to the one i have now, my daugher who's on his back is 4 or 5 there, she is still only 10.
>> I thought this was a staff also, unless you think this is a pug??

 

these extremely barbaric times . remember what we used to do to witches ? lol
activeirish you must remember that the lion was not protecting his pride, he was taken , kept in confinement and forced to fight in a large cage in front of a baying crowd, it was probably shitting itself, also the tudor kings employed beast keepers whos job it was to make these beast ready for the sports, sometimes burning them with hot irons to enrage them. barbaric yes. these spectacles gave rise to the RSPCA .
there is plenty of info available if you look hard enough.

 

I have to go, i've my unicorn entered in a catch weight bout with an american zebra lol

 

I hear you clearly Jacko and i fully understand what you are saying, but you also have to realise your thinking with human emotion, it makes no difference if the lion was protecting his pride or just his own hide, he was still 400 pounds of muscle teeth and claws, also remember the dogs didn't go there themselves and decide to have a go of their own free will, they were risking their life to please their masters
all animals involved > Lions, Bears, Bulls, Badgers AND the dogs, they were all put in a position NOT of their own making and without any choice what so ever.
BUT the dogs that tried their best and took the punishment were no more or less guilty than the animal they were pitted against, but by sticking with it through injury and pain they proved themselves game.

 

To enrage the lion? I don't know much about them but I'd prefer to face one that hadnt already been pissed off lol

 

Now you're talking, plus, in the history of the pitbull we've all seen prints/paintings and read historical accounts of dogs matched against bears, lions, badgers, other dogs, and MEN, but not one of the men or even 3 or 4 who faced a pitbull in a pit had the balls to face a lion, but yet they say the dogs doing so were not game or as game as the dog facing another dog? sort of flawed logic and thinking in my eyes

 

lmao
they used to send dogs in in groups of 3 or more at a time. the lion often dissembowling (sp) several of them. a good dog would probably get a hold of the lions stomach and hold on.
these lions and bears etc were expensive animals so their owners didnt want them dead, just pissed off lol

 

I'm enjoying this thread a lot, but should we all not be more worried about the future of these breeds than their past? In 30 or 40 yrs what r we gna see? Bully headed crap? Even shorter staffords with bigger palate problems? Pitbulls with temperments and hearts like a labrador pup? Its worrying given the demise of the breeds so far and how rare a good pitbull or stafford is

 

Exactly, and as you said > the lion often dissembowling several of them< now considering the dogs which were dissemboweled, can you imagine what's going on in the brain of anyone who thinks those dogs were NOT game? or that the survivor may have proved himself game better against a dog? helloooooo i don't see how, if big Leo wasn't able to make him turn and run then Rover or REX have no chance also lol

 

I'm heading with the Mrs and my camera to Donegal to photograph the sunset, catch you all later.

 

Are you really that thick? Your mate wrote "A dog willing to die to accoplish what he want's is game. A dog that won't isn't". I've known of sheepdog's and other working breeds, that have died at their job. So using his logic any dog willing to die at it's job is a gamedog. Hence my sheepdog quote.

As for your waffle about badger baiting I've explained my veiw's on that and why I don't consider it a game test. One question though, How many of these "dogmen" weigh badger's before hand to ensure a fair contest? Answer I know is None.

 

Did they weigh the sheep before the collie was let herd them? Did they weigh the bulls before baiting? Did they weigh the lions that hav bn mentioned? No. But as far as I'm concerned any dog willing to die doing its job is as game as the next. Collies is quite an unusual comparison but if uv known of dogs dying from aggressive sheep but still willing to attempt to herd them then yes I'd consider them game. I see ur another person who hurls insults when the debate isn't going their way.good luck to you

 

Think you talk the most sense than most of the so called knowledgeable dog men in the stafford site