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Zebo dogs

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by briarpatch, Oct 9, 2009.

  1. briarpatch

    briarpatch Banned

    What can you guys tell me about this line. I have seen it advertised several times in the gazette but dont have any pesonal experience with it. I like the build of the dogs ,although most of the ones pictured in the mag appear overweight.
     
  2. 8 out 10 times the mention of Zebo is a marketing ploy. The dog itself has a sensatonalized story circulating online that likely brought about fake claims of "zebo dogs for sale". There are "zebo dogs" out there are not usually physically over done.

    I will let the owners of zebo dogs take it from here.
     
  3. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    While I don't have much interest in Zebo dogs (I would go with Vindacator personally) Rockys right most are just a marketing ploy (especially in the gazette), but you can still find true zebo blood, it's out there you just gotta know where to look. ;)
     
  4. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    Rocky & AGK are right. Many people are in the Zebo line for the name or b/c the line has a tendency to throw short, muscular, wide mouthed dogs that are so popular among newbs.

    Because of this popular but improper frame, the Zebo line has a reputation of being 30 min curs. But the fact is, when you do not have a dog who is not BUILT to work it, CANNOT work, not matter how much heart it has. Most of the short, stocky dogs have shorter muzzles & elongated soft palates, which stifles breathing & thus their working ability is greatly hindered.

    But there ARE still correctly built working specimens around. A correctly built specimen will look like the dog it is bred off of. A lot of people today think Zebo was a short, stocky dog. He was not. In fact, it was said that Zebo's legs were so long they looked like they belonged on a bigger dog.

    A lot of people like to point to this image as proof of Zebo being a stocky dog:

    [​IMG]

    But it is simply a visual effect created by the picture. Here is a further away picture of Zebo on a flat surface that shows his true length of leg:

    [​IMG]

    So the bottom line is, if it is short & stocky, stay away from it. Firstly, if it has this build it is likely the breeder is just breeding for looks & not working his dogs. Of course there are always exceptions to this rule, as I have seen stocky dogs pop up in litters from working breeders, but if a breeder's dogs look like "mini Gottis" I'd stay away. Even if the dog is all heart, it is likely it will not be able to work as well as it's properly built cousins.

    But thankfully there are breeders who have kept the line true to form. As mentioned previously, you just have to know where to look. Look for the dogs who are working & winning. The N. Toby line is a good place to look. The Weaver line is another. Stuff off Lonzo's Snake & Lonzo's CH. Bad Loki are good as well. The Panther stuff, as well as the Evo stuff too.

    You can search this site & find good threads on the Zebo bloodlines. I have owned Zebo/Vindy blood both pure & crossed & really like it. But I was quite selective from whom I obtained my dogs & was very choosy as to how they were bred as well.

    I will however sign off with this - if you choose this line some of the working Lonzo stuff requires a very firm handler with an extremely escape proof set-up. They are very intelligent dogs who can figure out how to escape. They are ape strong & most kennels will not contain them, to include pipe framed welded wire (found that out the hard way). They will hold grudges against kennel mates & will do anything to get loose & even up any score real or imagined. If they get loose it is almost assured whoever they choose to tangle with will be badly hurt, if not killed. The working strain of these dogs is not for the faint of heart. But if you choose a well built dog from a breeder who has good stock, these dogs can excel at anything - conf. shows, weight pull, hog dogging & on leash obedience. At least that has been my experience.

    Good luck! :)
     
  5. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    ABK you say some crazy shit.
     
  6. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    Ben: How so? :confused:

    Briarpatch: Here is one of my pride & joy Zebo/Vindy dogs, Tiger:

    [​IMG]

    He has a Level I weight pull title, he has a CGC & he has never failed to place in any show he has been in. Once he even beat out a UKC GR.CH. to take BIS (boy were they mad!) yet he is still a very serious bulldog. This is the potential these dogs have IF you get them from the right breeder.
     
  7. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    " Zebo line has a reputation of being 30 min curs" "But the fact is, when you do not have a dog who is not BUILT to work it, CANNOT work, not matter how much heart it has" both those statements are not true at all.
     
  8. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    Absolutly true
     
  9. therealjudge

    therealjudge CH Dog

    zebo was a good game dog he proved that going into greaser- If I were to use any blood that went back to lonzo pratts yard, I would look into getting some oakie blood. He was a great dog, and he produced great dogs that produced great dogs.
    j
     
  10. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    that's bullshit yall must not have seen any of them stomper dogs whitsell or bobby hall had. alot of the tighter bullyson dogs are compact & not really the "standard" but have no problems working. if you believe those rumors then yall must believe redboy dogs have no mouth.
     
  11. briarpatch

    briarpatch Banned

    I have seen the two different styles and it wasnt the bully ones that attracted me. I prefer a dog with lots of leg..I think what I like most about them is from what I can tell in pics they seem to have a little thicker bone than the average game line. thanks for the input. I will continue my research. ABK- Where did you obtain your stock?
     
  12. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    ben: I've had Zebo crosses since '99 & Zebo/Vindy dogs since '01 & I can tell you I've heard the "30 min. cur" rumor quite often. As for build, I had one little Zebo/Vindy bitch who was short, compact & had the shorter muzzle with an elongated soft palate & trust me, it affected her working ability greatly. I don't care how much heart your dog has, if it can't breathe, it will quit to try to catch it's breath or if it doesn't quit it will pass out from lack of oxygen. Now the dogs you speak of might have different defects - I have seen Hall dogs with severely deformed front legs for example - but if they can breathe, they can still work. But if you can't breathe, you can't work - period.

    briarpatch: PM me & I can refer you to some nice kennels. :)
     
  13. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    ABK rumors are just that rumors. you have to take them with a grain of salt. that's right if you cant breath you can't work. but that's not a fact with all dogs with short muzzles. with each bloodline thers rumors but don't make them fact's. zebo is a ROM dog & there is other ROM dog from that stuff. that right there should tell you it's as good bloodline as any other. & remember the man behind the dog is a big factor a dipshit with a great dog can have that dog look like shit in a pull. thers folks that say bullyson blood produce nothing but 30min curs but that's not true.
     
  14. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    I agree. But I have seen short, stocky Zebo dogs work with my own eyes & the sad, bad fact is while there might be some flukes who can work, the overwhelming majority of short, stocky dogs cannot work as well physically as their correctly built cousins. If you match two dogs up with all other factors being equal, the correctly built dog will almost always triumph over one who is not built correctly. That is simply because form will follow function in & in our breed if you don't have correct form you don't function as well.

    Now short & stocky doesn't always mean bad. My Boudreaux/Clemmons dog is short & stocky & her daughter is built the same way. BUT ... their heads & muzzles are built in a manner that they can breathe well. Such is not the case with most short, stocky Zebo dogs. For whatever reason, most of the short, stocky Zebo dogs also have short muzzles, some pugged to the point of being undershot. Add to this the higher incidence of elongated soft palate amongst these animals & the result are dogs who usually cannot breathe under stress & as such aren't worth a flip as a working dog.

    But that as just been my experience as someone who has owned both types of Zebo dog.
     
  15. mac 11

    mac 11 Banned

    Those short stocky (sometimes red) zebo dogs that you see advertised, and when you look at the ped its no zebo. What's the ped on that red dog pulling? Would like to see who his/her zebo blood comes down from.
     
  16. FrankDublin

    FrankDublin CH Dog

    1/4 of zebo blood works good with jeep dogs so I heard

    no matter the cross I belive they said 1/4 was enough
     
  17. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    ABK if you find so much faults with the zebo line like you say. why do you chose to keep it on your yard ain't that hypocritical on your part? i ain't being a smart ass by asking that. it just don't make since to me. i personaly like a undershot bite nothing to crazy but IMO they close there mouth even better.
     
  18. FrankDublin

    FrankDublin CH Dog

    not true

    the myth is that they cant keep a hold

    which in some cases is true it all depends on how bad the undershot is
     
  19. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    that's pretty funny frank how you can tell me what i seen & what i ain't seen. i don't put any stock in myths only what i can see with my own eyes. BTW because i said " nothing crazy but undershot is just fine"
     
  20. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    mac: A lot of the red Zebo dogs have heavier Vindy in them than Zebo. That's probably where the red color comes from. Most of the Luniewski, Panther, Evo & Toby dogs are black. There are a sprinkling of Lunie dogs who are red, but not a whole lot. On the Lonzo side of the house it's opposite - most of Lonzo's dogs are red with a sprinkling of black dogs here & there. Again, this is b/c Lonzo's dogs are heavier in the Vindy blood. But the reason Lonzo's dogs are still referred to as "Zebo" dogs is b/c they have more of the component blood than the other lines do. The other lines may have more Zebo by the numbers (rightfully making them Zebo dogs) but Lonzo not only utilized Zebo & his offspring, he used Zebo's brother, sister, half sibs, nieces, nephews, etc. in his program as well.

    As for the dog pulling, he is a triple bred son of Lonzo's CH. Buba. The breeding is questionable though. If you go by the ADBA pedigree, he's heavy Mike/Vindy & then Zebo. If you go by the breeder's pedigree (who says that Buba is sired by Tate's CH. Dancer) the ped would be Zebo & Vindy with splashes of Snooty & Sorrell.

    ADBA ped: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=55676

    Breeder ped: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=168676

    Ya gotta love those old timers & their paper hanging. lol. ;)

    ben: I don't find fault in the Zebo/Vindy line. In fact, I like them. I've owned Zebo crosses since '99 & got into the Zebo/Vindy (Lonzo) dogs in '01. So I'm not some kind of Zebo hater.

    What I DON'T like are the dogs people are breeding for looks. Somewhere down the line these short & stocky Lonzo (Zebo/Vindy) dogs began being produced & a lot of folks jumped on them & began breeding them. Now they tout these "Zebo dogs" who can't walk around the block without passing out b/c they have breathing problems. THAT'S what I have a problem with.

    And is there anything wrong with that? I think our dogs should be kept true to standard. If you want a little snuffling, snorting piglet, get a English Bulldog or a Pug. But no. Too many people are hung up on the great "Zebo" name & that the dog is from "gamebred" lines. Never mind it looks like Gotti in miniature & would probably fall over if asked to catch a hog. :rolleyes:

    When I am looking for a Zebo dog one of the first questions I ask is how it's built. If it's not build correctly (i.e. like Zebo & Vindy were), I don't want it b/c the majority of the time the incorrectly built dogs simply IMO cannot do the work a correctly build dog can. And if wanting a dog that is built correctly so it can be athletic as the dogs the line was founded on were, than I am guilty as charged.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2009

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