working staffordshire bull terriers

people look on psycho dogs as pure ( when he had a touch bull terrier in him ) compared to barney and redbull ??? i know which blood i would rather have in if any

 

sorry i wrote that wrong ...that reads like i am having a dig at psycho but i am not ... i mean the bull blood compared to other blood in barney and redbull etc !!

 

wise words skipper, dogs make the papers not the other way round, especially true with dogs that have such low percentages as the staffords.too many breed for fancy looking pedigree papers, it makes them no different really to the show breeders they are always putting down for breeding garbage.

 

yes and thats why, SBT and staying the same ...very few make good pit dogs...if you had a gundog who is not doing it job 100% it would make sense to breed to a top gundog..to improve your stock...I see all these dogs as separate strains...and SBT are as a breed way lower in ability/gameness/natural air compared to a pitbull....SBT lack all this....why keep them for sport when your dogs cant
beat a pitbull...i know show people ruined them...but if you want to improve them so they can compete with a good pitbull...i think its time the ware bred to good producing pitbulls...or just keep them the way they are now...way down the pecking order

 

Best reply here, all other replys are debatable, just couse you cant find a good working Stafford in the local paper for sale add like you can APBT dont mean people who have working stock dont breed to proven working stock. If gold was easy to find and plentiful people wouldnt risk there lives to find it!

 

Im not saying there are none but its is getting rearer to find good SBTs, they are fading into the past

 

I understand what your saying but if it was as easy as that then every two decent bulldogs backed up to one another would produce. It just don't work most the time.
Likewise if there was a single decent stafford female around & you backed her up to a decent bulldog. There aint no guarantees & it would not improve anything in my opinion. Even if it did,what do you do several gen down the line when you are back to where you started ? Make a similar breeding ? As i mentioned earlier,stafford or gamedog. May well have been close related many yrs ago but are miles apart in quality now.
The problem ain't in the dogs. It is in the lack of genuine working owners,that the stafford is where it is today.

 

finito, there was never really a lack of genuine working owners, the fact is they all moved over to the apbt as the breed was far superior and it is a rare person that wanted to work with second best.it is a miracle any survive today to be honest.i do not think the breed is any worse off now than anytime ince the apbt was brought here, i can only ever remember one or two using staffords and the amount of winners from any decade (especially those winning over apbt's) has always been small.

 

exactly what i was thinking sunbeam ...there's no one loves the staffs more than me , infact i still have a one around me now but for anyone to think they could compete with the americans when they came over is living in cuckoo land or were in for a big shock !!

 

so you either want to keep the (working)STB going just for the sake of it?...or do you want competitive dogs who can go into any breed... working SBT have a lot of disadvantages,,,, over built, lack air, run out of stamina...because of these..there gameness get checked quicker...and usually quit...

 

Yes,i was around at the time & i sure ain't blind now or back then.
I don't agree that the stafford is any worse off now than it was back then. In fact,i am surprised at your statement. Far far more staffords were worked back then. This meant that when bred there was more working dogs close up in them "fancy" peds. Hence a better stafford was around. I would even go as far as to say that there is more staffords down from these early dogs (around today) that are nothing but a shadow of what they once were. Many many breedings were peddled in the past,but more so today.
I'm talking quality of staffords & not "bulldogs",be that in the past or here & now. That is if there is any around today.

 

i wonder how many of them old working staffs would have faired if they had gone into americans rather than staffs etc .i am not knocking them in anyway as they went into what was around at the time but i think it would have been a different story if they went into americans like josh etc did .

 

There are plenty of examples where the Staffs came out on top! You find examples from the early days, all the way forward to today! The problem from the first place was that people did not notice those who did, they noticed that most could not. If the breeding program would have been focused on those dogs that whopped the american dogs, things would have quickly turned out different. I personally also believe it was down to hype. Everyone should have an american dog, otherwise you did not feel like you where part of the new thing. Pretty much like some people always need to have the latest cell phone to feel satisfied. Some of those who ditched the Staffs back then, still to this date are out hunting for the latest fab! Always feeling that there must be something better around the next corner.

I have seen enough to dispute that Staffs are low percentage, or that they are all that much behind etc! Altough Staffs are often kept by low precentage people, that makes the difference! On the contrary, the Staffs are pretty high percentage regarding how few there are about and how few good people there are involved.

 

I bet there were more pit bull who beat staff than the other way round....pit bull came over to England and soon they active dogmen seen that the pitbulls ware a alround better dog..air..ability...mouth...gameness...swithched breeds, I dont know if it possible if someone could make a list staff -pitbull outcomes ? with out getting anyone in trouble

 

Sure, and then esp. the Irish guys kept changing blood lines as soon as they got the smell of something they tought where better. Regard the staffs as just another blood line, and then line up all the other blood lines they worked trough and discarded ever since. See a pattern?

..air. In some cases, but there were plenty of staffs about with good air.
..ability. Perhaps. The APBT comes from a bigger breeding pool. There are more veriety of styles etc within the APBTs.
..mouth. Absolutely not, on the contrary many Staffs has proven brutal mouth.
..gameness... Doubtfull. The Staffs that come from a genine background is just as game as the other breed.

 

Ihad the good fortune to have a bitch off of barney n out of becky , back in early 90s she was a replica of him and a very good working dog , always regreted not buyin him when was offered chance but just never had the cash at the time

 

i had a one out of the same litter hamish always regretted not putting her back to him when i had the chance

 

small world skipper nick offered me to do the same but i think mine was still young and he sold him on before i had chance , if i remember rightly that bis

 

OnTheRocks, the Irish got rid of Staffs because they could not compete with APBT...

 

mine wasn't when n had him it was l owned him ...n always regretted getting rid of barney but like others he fell for the psycho bred stuff .