working dogs

everyone on this part of the forum wants to say they have staffs from working stock such as physco,dublin red etc etc.then you look or hear about the peds and they are generations far away enough basically it doesnt count.so then what gets said is that only way to get good dogs is breed working dog to working dog.in my opinion i hardly think in this day and age no one hardly has any dogs worthy of how they was a few years ago.but this brings me to my question.the old terriers way back had been crosses with pitts to get them more game and working type also adding a lot more of everything that is a plus to the old terriers in terms of working etc.if you look at physco im sure he has some pitts in his blood that is quite close,anyway my point is t get these irish bred staffs back how they used to be why dont anyone cross them back to apbt back and forth till the get the right mix and carry on that line.surely thats wat they done to start with and look at all the great dogs that was made from these crosses eventually being well bred irish staffs like the real old irish staffs used to be and you clearly link them to being true working dogs like the old ones when they really had some apbt blood in them but where the irish staffs that everyone here claims there dogs to go back to

 

if you know where to look, you'll find some good staffords about with no need for apbt blood, but that's the key you need to know some legit breeders and that's very hard to accomplish, especially from internet forums. take the time to visit and see for yourself, some of the staffords around will make a believer out of you like i said before

 

Ive seen english bullterrier/staffordshire bull terrier first crosses that anybody would take for a fullbred apbt.A friend of mine bred a litter of second cross apbt/sbt afew years ago and none were the equal of their parents(both first crosses).THis bsl shit would remind you of former apartheid in south africa(one drop rule etc.)so Its probably not a good idea(in britain) to suggest that working staffords have apbt blood.The r.s.p.c.a would have the general public believe they are all full blooded a.p.b.ts anyway and wipe them out.I get your point though ,both breeds have have same/similar origins and were seperated by geography for a hundred years or so.Likewise greyhounds were exported to australia around the same period that the bull n terrier reached the u.s.a,and aussie lines have been very successfully recombined with their distant cousins from britain and ireland.Last years irish,english and scottish derby winners were all first cross aussie/irish bred.Maybe the hybrid vigor that you get with the first cross hides currish traits that show up in subsequent generations.

 

No need to cross the apbt back into the stafford as there are some excellent working staffords kept by genuine stafford people. To cross the two breeds and get consistant dogs would take a life time!!!! maybe more, of inbreeding off the two animals,raising litter after litter and culling sometimes whole litters, then maybe trying an outcrossed bloodline to get it back on track. Why bother with all that time, effort, space and money and being genuine with your stock (not selling sub standard animals) When like i said there are true stafford faciers out there,of course the percentage of true stafford fanciers is but a fraction of apbt breeders,but they are out there.

 

i have been to a few shows,spoke to a few people and all i find is one thing really is that when i get speaking to a guy when it comes to the boil how your dog is bred,yes its has some phycho blood in him,or stochade,stormer etc etc.but when you look at the dog and see it do some courses on the the day,i get put off from what i see.
so thats why i thought crossing it back to apbt would bring back the dogs of old and be like they used to be.and as for finding the small % of good bred working staffords i have not come across one

 

a lot of people with working dogs do not go to these shows and doing a 100meter run or going over A frame is not work:rolleyes: just a bit of fun.

 

Not being funny but there is a few that have working staffords but dont tend to shout from the roof tops and taking a stafford that has been worked to a show would be asking for trouble as there is always under cover plod/rspca at these shows so I think it would not be wise to tell a stranger unless you want a knock on the door.Cant see how breeding to apbt will make a difference maybe first cross hybrid vigoeur I always thought psycho was a cross with bull terrier

 

yes i can understand why at shows you wont get any joy with these dogs and doing the 100 m is just fun thats very true.thats why i not seen them then.and offcoarse you dont know who is at the shows to.its hard work trying to find these dogs,i know people that do the digging with the paterdales and lakelands and the bull greyhounds but they are just purely in to those dogs not the staffords

 

Re: working dogs is this staff or pit

l post pics

 

crossing to an apbt might ive you a litter of good performing dogs but no consistency. u can find good workin dogs, and if you want apbt quality then get an apbt haha

 

He is not qualified to be regarded as a cross, he had 6.25% Bullterrier blood in his pedigree. If consider the close relationship between the breeds, and the fact that Staffords at a fairly late date where bred into the BT to add colour- the practical percentage of infusion of genes would be even lower than 6.25%

 

I was on about the blood not the dog as previous posted had stated it was APBT crossed in there

 

Here is a link to a great site in holland that shows how REAL staffords should be imo.Quinlent - Staffordshire Bull Terriërs.
They even look like staffords!

 

Not being funny but the thread was about working dogs :dogtongue:

 

Not being funny nasher but do you mean fighting rather than working?
If so I apologise,but if not this part of the forum is for staffordshire bull terriers and not staffy crosses that fight:dogtongue:

 

another ludicrous comment about the leggier type of staffords, man this shit gets me heated

 

Hey. I am all for the staffords of the original standard. I detest 99% of what I see in the show ring today. But the point I am trying to make is that there are staffords and the people behind them that will never bow down to what is popular in the breed today in sake of heart and intensity.
I have been around plenty pits,owned ambulls and own staffs and can tell you first hand,drive/workwise, there is minimal difference.
Its basically best dog on the day

 

i see what your saying, but you can't compare staffords of different calibers based on some being nice and ripped, that does not change the facts they arent at the same level. it's your choice and you are entitled to like whatever you like, but nonetheless the type of staffords you present here will never be at the same level of the more balanced and leggier type. south african staffords are known to have more english bulldog or pug added to them to make them bullier, but many dont like to hear this, but the point is they will never compare

 

Amen to that^^

 

All I would like to get across is that there are still some,imo,great staffords out there and people wanting to show the working dog world they can still compete.
As for the pug blood comment I myself have raised this issue before in forums involving the kc show fraternity.
We all know pits,staffs etc came from the same blood. If we are not talking about "proven dogs",then all we can base our assumptions on are the drive and tenacity on the canines held in our possession.
I AM saying,there are staffords still active today up there with the best from years gone by.