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why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

Discussion in 'APBT History' started by blue paul, Aug 26, 2007.

  1. blue paul

    blue paul Big Dog

    why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    Why don't apbt's look like the pitbulls that first came over from england and ireland?
     
  2. BoiBoi

    BoiBoi CH Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    how do u figure that they don't. Were u alive back then to see them firsthand? hmm....i highly doubt that so whats the point of this thread really, are u just trying to bash the breeding practices of generations past that created the dog we have today? I believe that the dogs that we have today that stayed true to form and can be traced back for generations are basically the same in appearance as what originally came over on the boat
    YIS
    B
     
  3. miakoda

    miakoda GRCH Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    Because it is the American Pit Bull Terrier. The bulldog x terrier cross that was the norm in the UK was perfected here in America. Thus the name and any possible changes in the dogs. ;)
     
  4. Searcy Jeff

    Searcy Jeff Top Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    Well said Miakoda. I too believe that the APBT was perfected here in America.
     
  5. blue paul

    blue paul Big Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    so you think colby and such people new better than hundreds of years of breeding in england? because they call it american? they cross breed the dogs as they simply didn't have enough pure pitbulls from england to keep the breed going pure and made there own breed american pitbull.
     
  6. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    There weren't "hundreds" years of breeding in the UK. The original bull & terrier cross took place roughly around 1835 & thousands of immigrants from the UK were emmigrating to the US in 1846.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2007
    1 person likes this.
  7. pennsooner

    pennsooner CH Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland



    If you know the answer then why ask a question about it in the first place? You seem to be trying to make an indirect sort of argument along the lines of "Stocky Staffybull type dogs are TRUE Pitbulls".


    There were a LOT of factors that would account for the differences. But the main thing that happened when the dogs came to the US is they got bigger over time. And the reasons for that I would bet are that people had more room to keep the dogs and used them for more that JUST matching. A lot were likely to have to work as all purpose farm dogs as well and for that people need somewhat larger dogs.


    The fact is that StaffyBulls from back in the day weren't near as short and wide as the are now a days, at least from the photos I've looked at. StaffyBulls getting so stocky is no doubt a result of the influence of the showring, where exaggeration is rewarded.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. BoogiemanBlood

    BoogiemanBlood Premium Member Premium Member

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    well put ABK. ;)
     
  9. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    This is true. Here is a link to a kennel who has working staffords. As you will see, their dogs are smaller than APBTs but do NOT resemble a bully type dog. In fact, to me they more resemble APBTs.

    http://www.wmkennels.com/
     
  10. Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    hmm...about a hundred years of human-selected breedings and unnatural evolution of a "breed"
     
  11. Suki

    Suki Guest

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    I think due to the fact that in 1976, the A.D.B.A., was petitioned by the owners of the APBT breed, who all "possessed a very competitive spirit, to develop a standard on the breed by which conformation dog shows could be held", my feeling is the APBT actually wnet back to its original look/roots and not wandered from. Theses owners did not want a standard that copied or mimicked those of the UKC or AKC, or so it has been said.
    So, a standard for the dogs that they owned and continued to breed for the traits of intelligence, character, loyalty, and the athletic conformation that the breed was originally bred for hundreds of years ago was formulated. Thereby, they could continue competition, in a legal endeavor. Thus, the formation of the A.D.B.A. Conformation Standard, which i feel "brings back " the true APBT. and yes, it IS hard to say if today's dogs look like ones from over 100 years ago, as all we can go by are pictures to look at.

    However, prior to this:
    during the depression in the 30's, the American Kennel Club added American Pit Bull Terriers to their registry under the name of Staffordshire Terriers. With this new name for the breed, they needed a standard. Yup a new "look". After visiting a few kennels, a committee headed by Wilfred T. Brandon chose Colby's Primo as a standard for the breed. (see below)



    UKC 233-460

    AKC 641-443

    ADBA 500-01

    [​IMG]Whelped May 29, 1935

    Sire: Colby's Brandy

    Dam: Colby's Mable



    now ALL the crosses and mixes that we have today, well, that's entirely another story....;) and yeah, imo, they ALL look different....because they are not true APBT's.



    here is Colby's Jerry: imo, he doesn't look so different...(and check out the date)
    [​IMG]Colby's Jerry Whelped: Circa 1900
    Sire: Colby's Pincher
    Dam: Colby's Nancy

    Perfect overall conformation
     
  12. dogged

    dogged Big Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    I love that photo of Colby's Jerry. Beautiful dog.
     
  13. blue paul

    blue paul Big Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

     
  14. Marty

    Marty Banned

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    This is a game-dog site so it may not be for you then?
     
  15. blue paul

    blue paul Big Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    GREAT LINK! they have some GREAT dogs! these are the real dogs! and im glad there not calling them american! my bitch is also a dublin red stain! do you know much about these dogs?
     
  16. blue paul

    blue paul Big Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    colbys jerry is GREAT! but im looking for more dogs that look like him! i don't beleive colbys's pincher is the sire! colbys pincher looks american bulldog bred.[​IMG]
     
  17. Suki

    Suki Guest

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    http://www.colbypitbull.com/
    it's right on his site..
     
  18. Marty

    Marty Banned

    purplepig likes this.
  19. 14rock

    14rock GRCH Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    I believe whole-heartedly, as has been proven time and time again, APBT's are more successful than the dogs they were created from. Your's is very similar to what people were using 200 years ago. Although that holds a certain nostalgic value, why work with something that has been proven ineffective in the face of change?

    I may very well have a horse and buggy in the backyard I'm very proud of and ride. It may be one of the best damn horse and buggies still around today. However, is it still the best, or has it been out-dated? Does it compare to the Ferrari's and Bugatti's, Bentley's, or Aston Martin's we have today?

    I have been told, in good confidence, Europe has some fantastic original staffords. Incredibly game, pure, and able to win from time and time. However, do they continually come out on top, when pitted against APBT's? I know a few have, but so have Kangals, Dobermans, and even the occasional mastiff or two.

    Forced human evolution took place on this continent, which had different goals and specimins (for the most part) than the evolutions which took place on your side of the lake. In keeping with the reason these dogs were created, as the best fighting dog ever created, most Americans wen't that route while it seems many Europeans cared more about keeping their dogs "pure" from other yards, and most similar looking to the dogs of the past, as opposed to creating the absolute best fighting dog. There is no debating we may have lost some of the nostalgia, sacraficing it to come closer to the perfect fighting dog that was envisioned when these dogs were first bred. In much the same way, we lost some of the nostalgia of buggies and wooden wheels, in the quest of the best performing auto.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. CHATNJACK

    CHATNJACK Big Dog

    Re: why don't apbt look like the dogs that first came over from england & ireland

    blue paul check your PM's.
     

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