which line

Well JT, nobody seems to be arguing against what your saying about those lines,so that in itself speaks volumes lol

 

Ultimathule i simply tell the truth and always have done , i get letters every week asking about gamedogs and in particular pedigrees and have done so for thirty years , letters from Belguim , Holland , Ireland , Australia , New Zealand and many other countries were Staffords have been exported to . Now i keep every letter i received and have over two thousand letters that i can refer back to if need be , i also keep copies of each letter i write this way i can check exactly what i wrote at a later date , so if you claim i told you something in a letter five years ago im able to go back and check exactly what i said . Now when i read these old letters its amazing how some people forget what they said back when they first wrote me , but in every letter i write i always tell them i will answer honestly but what i tell you might not bewhat you want to hear , so be careful what you ask . Its the same when people phone me i ALWAYS offer help and advice to anyone FREE of charge , i DONT try to sell anyone anything and have all the letters asking for pups or matings or adults and have all my replies to these request in my records . Its the same when im asked about a certain dog , if it quit i will say so , even if its my own dog , ive owned plenty curs but show me one that quit that later appeared in a pedigree AFTER it had quit , i did once breed a male i owned that later quit in his third and we had placed four pups out of him and his half sister with friends , we bought them all back except for one which was neuteured and we had GIVEN the pups for free . Those dogs in this posting were some very well bred dogs but had a few what i MYSELF would call faults , howevor like ive said they are impressive looking dogs make great pets and if your not going to match them you couldnt find a better pet , this also applies to those Blue and Red so called Staffords they are inpressive looking and would make great pets but if you wanted a working dog then get a wellbred Pitbull , but choose one with a authentic pedigree . I have to laugh when someone ask me about a certain dogs pedigree and i tell them its false or THEY tell me the dog quit , then years after i see the same doig in a pedigree and suddenly it become a game dog , ive always been amazed at what ive seen in gamedogs but somethings just astound me , then when i say the dog quit they say IM lying even when i counted the dog out in front of lots of people . All bloodlines produce curs , howevor if you breed to known curs that bloodline will produce more curs its as simple as that , its NOT rocket science , its been this way for three hundred years though today we have dogmen that feel they can rewrite history and disregard dogs that quit , well good luck to them perhaps theyre right , just ask father christmas or the tooth fairie

 

Are these the same dogmen you called clowns

 

Read the post and judge for yourself its blatantly obvious who is who on this board , i simply tell you the TRUTH as i saw it not what others have told me who were not even there

 

Im sorry for sugesting the Payne line..I stand in error..my appologies friends..
I dont keep staffs,so yes should have kept my mouth shut..

game on..

 

The old boy Payne has been out of the dogs a long long time...and hasnt bred a Stafford for donkeys years...theres been a lot of blood flowed under the genetic bridge so to speak since his day...so you have to ask yourself the relevance for Springview/jt ellison to keep dragging the old boys name throught the mud on the internet...hes even posted the mans full name on this forum in other threads which is out of order...the TRUTH is Springview/jt ellison had a big falling out with the lads in that neck of the woods...most of his posts are clearly made out of bitterness and spite...those lads have moved on and got on with their lives...obviously he has not and has nothing better to do than post the half truths and silly bullshit stories like those posted on this thread...just a sad little man cryinging into an old shoe box full of love letters and fanmail

 

I think what he means is, staffs NOT bred to be pot lickers, catwalk models, and basically fat overweight and very unhealthy kc type dogs. Rather dogs bred to weight pull, and other ring sports that test the endurance of the dog.

 

Hey Burger king (mixed grill) i havent spoke to Pyne since he lied about pedigrees of dogs he sold to friends of mine , as for falling out with the boys from his area well they all fell out with him . I still see the rest of the Portsmouth boys they are some of my oldest friends and it was them that told me about the falsifying of pedigrees and breeding from rank curs , and that i saw a number of them quit cold myself . Who did i fall out with Burger King ??? I keep letters because people like you write to me then years later change what you said were as im able to read exactly what you said , the Facts are Payne was a puppy peddlar that used Irish Jack a English Bull cross on bitches and put KC pedigrees on the pups , he also bred many litters out of Bludgeons Blockbuster a dog that quit many times and used his pedigree for Irish Jack , he also bred Mad Maggie to Rocky (both quit) and sold them as gamebred staffords , he also sold littermates to the dam of Cooper as showbred KC registared stafords one of which was 70lb and 23 inches at ten months old , the poor lady owner thinking her loving pet was a stafford . The only reason he got out of dogs was that so many people realised what hed done and his name was blackened by others in his area who are well known and loudly voiced there views , so Burger King if you think hes a good old boy who did anything to forward the gamedog game then your dafter than i thought you were . Then again when you check out the bullshit surrounding the false pedigrees on some of the dogs youve been involved with its easy to understand how you and Payne are kindered spirits , i seem to remember this board being full of complaints about dogs you owned having false pedigrees , these threads are still here for anyone to read , last but not least Luckystrike i mean dogs with false pedigrees that are crossbred and bred from dogs that quit being sold to newcomers as purebred KC registared staffords and as gamebred registared staffords when they are not and if ANYONE thinks its right to do that then you must have come of the same barbecue as Payne and Burger King , lastly the only comebacks Payne would have is from the trade descriptions people or fraud squad for years of peddling dogs with false pedigrees and to those who have dogs from these dogs in your pedigrees then i apologise but this behaviour is acceptable to Burger King

 

The name calling just makes you look ridiculous JT! What do you want to achievewith that? It looks like something that would go in an argument at a schoolyard…

 

Your quick to dismiss peoples opinions because "they wernt there" but as far as the silly story about the lady at the dog show with the giant pitbull puppy goes YOU wernt there!...its something you got 'told' by someone else...a 'secondhand story'...you seem a bit confused about these dogs with KC papers but then again in your own words...its something you got 'told' by other people its 'secondhand gossip'...now i dont think its right to come on an open forum and repeatedly post someones name and location and try and rubbish them with secondhand stories when you know they are not on here to defend themselves or give their side of events...i have spoken to many people about payne and all those that actually delt with him only had good things to say...its only you slagging him off...i been 'told' stuff about you that dont paint you in a good light but i wouldnt post them on the web as facts...the dog games a small world and the stafford fancy even smaller...everyone likes a gossip...so if he was a peddler and rip off merchant...how come its only you the person who fell out with him posting this kind of shit

As for "complaints" about my dogs as i have never sold a dog to anyone on these forums what would anyone have to complain about please explain??...again you get your self all confused about these KC papers and try and twist the facts and try and stretch the truth...your as economical with the truth as you are liberal with the bullshit...i've had 2 dogs that came to me with KC papers both unrelated and from totaly differnt breeders...one out of Jocko/beanie2 and the other dublinred/flynn...i have never used their KC papers and you will find noone on these silly forums who has bought a dog or pup from me so wheres the complaints!!??...now taking a shit bred dog and giving it the pedigree of a better bred one to make the dog appear to be better than it really is to make it worth more money is on thing...taking a well bred working dog and hiding it behind KC papers is a totaly differnt thing done for differnt reasons as you and a lot of other lads on here well know...but hey dont let a little thing like the truth get in the way of a good story.

 

On the Rocks...he can call me what he likes...i've been called a lot worse than 'burger king'...if people are so sensitive that a bit of heated banter offends them they should just click on anothere thread...he can call me what he wants as long as he gives the secondhand stories a rest and sticks to the facts

 

Mixed Grill on the 4/7/83 myself and two other wellknown dogmen were in a wellknown domans kitchen in Portsmouth talking dogs , one of my friends had gone to purchase a pup from these boys . Whilst talking dogs a man arrived at the house we were at and said in front of us all that someone had arrived at his house to buy a stafford puppy but they wanted KC registration which the pups DID NOT have , the person we were visiting suggested and they then decided to use the pedigree of a fat showbred stafford the guy whos house we were in owned and tell the prospective buyers this fat KC staffords pedigree was the pedigree for the sire of the pups . Later that day we went to look at another litter of pups the dam being out of Peppy(Joe/CH Mitsi) and her sire being Browns Rocky(Red Warrior/Tasha) this bitch was called Rockette . The sire to these puppies was a dog called Dylan(Red Warrior/Tasty Bridget of Stockades) , this dog was bred by Payne , the puppies we were told has KC registration which we knew to be impossibble as only Bridget was actually KC registared , howevor the pups were wellbred and my friend purchaseda bitch puppy but refused the offer of a KC pedigree and used the TRUE pedigree on the puppy . Another time i attended a show were a bitch bred by Payne out of Rocky(Red Warrior/Maggie) was matched into a sister to the Nigger dog (Copper/Pistol Peg) the stafford bitch quit while ahead , i believe the Molly bitch was the dam of Johnstone and his sire Irish Jack . Some time later a boy wrote me with a pedigree hed got from Payne for a puppy hed bought out of CH Jim and Red Gwen a sister to Molly , this puppy had KC registration also , before you ask the bitch was bred to GRCH Jim when he was owned by Axesmith of Portsmouth and before i owned the dog . I also saw with my own eyes a number of dogs sired by Irish Jack a threequarter English Bull/Quarter Staff dog out of bitches Payne owned that had KC pedigrees and know they used Jack on many bitches in the Portsmouth area . As for the big cossbred dog this was told to us by a partner of Paynes from Portsmouth and the litter were sold as being KC Staffords , this was common knowledge back then and they used the pedigree Bludgeons Blockbuster a dog that quit several times in front of wellknown dogmen but was still used over many bitches as was his pedigree , this was long before the dangerous dogs act so there was no need to falsify pedigrees other than for monetary gain , the reason Payne got out of dogs was that the Portsmouth boys moved into Pitbulls and he no longer had a market for dogs that were falsely papered and bred from dogs that had quit , incidently he wasnt the only person in that area that was involved in falsely papering dogs most of them did it or knew about it . Over the years i saw dozens of pedigrees that came from Payne or dogs that were descended from dogs he bred that were falsely papered and the sad truth is the true pedigrees on the dogs had far more value than the false ones . It was the same with a lot of those Flynn litters bred down that area they were sired by Jack but sold as being pure Flynn bred , howevor it was easy to see they were out of Jack the way they acted the English Bull charicteristics they displayed that horrible Bull Terrier squeal the made when excited the head shapes the colour variations that are only seen in English Bull terriers , the ear carriage in some was a giveaway also , still thats all history but Mixed Grill its not all second hand gossip and those who told me were wellknown active dogmen and partners with Payne in some of his dodgy dealings, lastly i would like to see a pedigree that came from Payne thats true and not false just ONE single pedigree out of the hundreds of dogs he bred , its IMPOSSIBLE to own a dog with Paynes name behind it thats genuine even more so when they are KC registared

 

Correction the above should read Mad Molly(Rocky/Maggie) with Rocky being out of Red Warrior and Tasha and Maggie being out of Bludegeons Blockbuster/Tasty Bridget of Stockades my apologies

 

As you said Jt..."THE TRUE PEDIGREES ON THE DOGS HAD FAR MORE VALUE THAN THE FALSE ONES"...you clearly didnt read what i wrote at the end of post#30...why would someone go to the trouble of breeding to game proven dogs like Jack and Jim just to sell the offspring to unsuspecting punters as bog standard KC show dogs!?...he could of used anyold street corner Staff to do that with...think about it!...he simply bred to the best dogs available to him.

 

I remember back in 80s that people would put kc papers on any dog as people paid more when kc papers ware on dogs

 

Think today isn't any different.
But its also to protect the dogs themselfs. Because of governement rules, BSL, import/export and so on.
When breeding good dogs, 99% of the times the (fake) kc-papers are nothing to brag about. Just for precautions.

 

F::k in uk they measure your dog to see if its a pit, so makes no dif if you got the paperwork for a staffy

 

Don't know if its true but i have heard that staff's taken away by RSPCA have more change to rehome if the are KC registered.
If it's true, it makes difference.

 

Just on measurements? And what about the big staffs and small APBT's then?

 

I think the police measure the dog and if it fits the size its took or am i wrong