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Want peoples opinions good or bad.

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by AGK, Oct 4, 2009.

  1. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    I have the opportunity to do this breeding:

    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=330327

    The top of the pedigree is blood that is not around anymore, especially bred like it is, this Stud has only been bred 2 or 3 times and is currently 11 years old and I believe is the only living sibling from his litter but I know the owners of the dog and the owners of the dogs grandparents. I'm told the dog is very healthy, and just produced a litter of 7 a couple of months ago. I started a thread a couple of weeks ago about Red Beker dogs and no one responded so, I don't expect much from this thread but lets hear what you got and or what you think.......:p
     
  2. simms

    simms CH Dog

    first 3 generations I'm not familuar with. From a ped stand point, there are some great dogs behind him. what about the bitches ped?
     
  3. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    That would be the pups pedigree. The stud is .Apollo. and the dam would be M.I.A.
     
  4. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    It's basically a Loposay/bolio cross
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2009
  5. I like it if that means anything just send 1 my way for the answer i just gave you LOL:D GHK
     
  6. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    IMO i would pass it up till you really know what type of dogs MIA produce. also get a hard look at the stud & what he produce. quality over quantity. if his blood ain't really around anymore it may be tough to checkout his offspring. see if you can find similar bred dogs to that cross. it's going to be a huge gamble if this is MIA first batch of pups & you have only seen a few dogs from the stud. myself i would pass it up & not think about breeding your bitch till you know if she can produce. getch has put down enough dogs bred similar to your bith so you can see what type of dogs he throws.
     
  7. Pipbull

    Pipbull Top Dog

    If you are really interested in the stud, but still want to find out how your girl produces first, maybe getting some frozen semen from him since he's so old? Just a thought.
     
  8. lrk

    lrk Big Dog

    If you know the appollo dog and like him and his grandparents and you like mia or I'm sure you wouldn't be feeding her I say do it. Every breeding is a gamble in its self regardless of the sire and dam. It may turn out to be the litter that produces the next big thing?? And in the end the only person that these would have to please would be you and if they meet your standards then don't worry about what others think. Just my opinion.
     
    Tate likes this.
  9. therealjudge

    therealjudge CH Dog

    the loposay dogs I have seen with my own eyes are above average in most areas. Some run hot, but thats nothing better conditioning cant fix. If you need more prospects give it a try. I am a fan of having dogs bred differently than others. You could have something really good there.
    j
     
  10. FrankDublin

    FrankDublin CH Dog

    shit if i were you i would have done it already
    and then asked what everybody thinks
     
  11. PurePit19

    PurePit19 CH Dog

    I personally met one of the original owners of Sparky and he said he was a great dog and good producer. The Sparky dogs i've seen were all off of Jethro and were fireballs at the age of 6months. I'm not familiar with the Uncle Sam dog, but i say do the breeding and see what you get, you never know. Good luck
     
  12. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    The first part of the quote in bold I would have not posted personally ( now your going to open the Sparky didn't produce pups crowd to jump in on this thread....lol)

    Not tring to step on peoples toes with this, but I heard a rumor (from several people) that Jethro has Babesia, anyone know how much truth is involved in this rumor? I wanted to breed to him about a year or 2 ago (about a week after he made R.O.M. we were tring to get it worked out) but then heard this and pretty much just shit canned our plans to breed to him all together. I also have had the chance to breed to Shortimes Slugger, both when Shortime owned him and currently, his new owner and I have talked a couple times about it but I heard some stuff from the orginal owners/breeder of that dog that made me shy away from that breeding as well, We have 2 more breedings that we want to try to definitly get done before M.I.A gets too much older (I skip a heat inbetween breedings with all females and don't breed females after the age of 8, so I only have about 4 - 5 more litters that will come off her, if that, if we're lucky) The Red B Dog is more of my side project, but this dog is #1 canidate for us to breed to:

    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=141651

    and the next priority for us is taking her back to her sire:

    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=204799

    Personally I prefer Boyles/Bolio dogs but I have this curiosity about the loposay blood and how will it click with Boyles blood since the latter blood seems to go well with just about anything you stick to it.
     
  13. Bxpits

    Bxpits CH Dog

    i say do it and place the pups i the right hands rather than sell them to the public.
    you will know exactly how she produces with your pups in the hands of dogmen
     
  14. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    Thanks Eliezer, thats pretty much the game plan, also, I don't sell dogs to the public, ever, If people want a petbull they can open up any classified section of just about any newspaper in the country and get one of those instead;). I perfer to put them in the proper hands (more times than not they go to other kennels) instead of contributing to the problem encircling this breed (which in my opinion is only an issue because the general public has made these dogs all to common and are not responsible enough to contain such superior athletes or are just ignorant assholes that use their dog to make themselves look better:rolleyes:)
     
  15. FrankDublin

    FrankDublin CH Dog

    I'm gonna say this!

    Just cause a line is not talked about by the majority dosnt mean its not good
    I would take a chance
     
  16. coolhandjean

    coolhandjean CH Dog

    I don't know anything about the line.

    I just wanted to wish you luck with the breeding, and I hope you get what you are looking for from the breeding.
     
  17. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    Oh believe me, I know what both lines coming to the table are about for the most part, I have first hand knowlege of the majority of the dogs on both sides of the pedigree. I said the flavor of the month comment because that is what makes me want to do it even more, neither the female being bred or the stud I plan on breeding too are from flavor of the month lines ( Nothing agince those chinamen, jeep, mayday dogs as well as many other lines that I concider to fall into this catagory) My point is, that is what attracts me to this particular stud. The blood isn't out there like many other lines are which means for the most part the dogs I find off these dogs have not been watered down due to over breeding off a name.. But I do agree with you which is why it's a risk I am willing to take, nothing to it but to do it everything else will always just be speculation and opinion......;)
     
  18. wardogkennels

    wardogkennels CH Dog

    My opinion is to not do it.
     
  19. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    How come wardog?
     
  20. wardogkennels

    wardogkennels CH Dog

    He is probaby a cur. Here is a post I copied off peds online and it definitly sums up breeding. I 99% agree with this guys opinion on breeding.

    So many times I see people get on this board and ask, “how does this breeding look?” and “opinions on this breeding I just made” etc. There are also numerous posts regarding “what crosses best?” and “what’s the best bloodline?” “Is this breeding too tight?” And the list goes on and on. I hope that anyone who has ever asked one of these questions reads this.

    First of all you have to ask yourself, “What’s the goal of this breeding?” If the answer is anything less than create dogs that compete and win at the highest level then you should not make the breeding! If you make a breeding based solely on: looks, mouth, air, ability, to preserve a “bloodline,” or even gameness, you should not make the breeding. If your brood stock has any of the above mentioned traits but does not have the ability to win, then don’t breed the dog. Why? Because our dogs were created to compete and win and anything less is a deviation from the breed standard. While some people may like certain “styles” or “traits” over others, the goal should be the same . . .to take home the blue ribbon!!!

    If your “brood stock” has not shown the ability to WIN, then why breed? Why try to create more of what could not win in the first place? This is not to overlook the most valued trait we love about bulldogs, gameness. However, I have seen all to often people that make breedings with not a single win between the sire, dam, and grandparents (first 2 generations) or even worst, 3 or 4 generations only to claim that they were all “game.” What a load of bull. If they were just honest with themselves they’d admit that they would have been much better off breeding to ANY Champion then breeding to more winless dogs, regardless of bloodline.

    Here is where many will want to jump in and say, “What about so-and-so, he or she was a cur/cold/untested dog and they still produced?!” We all have heard about the exceptions, but do you really want to base your time, money, and effort hoping to have the exception to the rule? Hoping to have yet another subpar dog out producing him or herself is a complete waste of time and resources 99% of the time, yet people will point to the 1% and use that as a reason to breed to something that not even the best dogman in the world could win with. When you really think about it, it’s completely STUPID!

    So why is it so important to breed to winners? First of all you know breeding to a Gr. Ch. is not just breeding to the best dog on one person’s yard but he has proven him or herself to be the best over many competitors. He has accomplished the most important task of the breed, which is to compete and win over the competition. Secondly, history has shown us that most of the best producing dogs were first winners. That’s right, pick up an old book/magazine and see for yourself. Let’s take a look at the old SDJ’s R.O.M. list to drive this point home. The top 5 producing dogs on the R.O.M. list (regardless of what dog you really believe is #1) is: Ch. Jeep, Frisco, Gr. Ch. Mayday, Gr. Ch. Yellow and Gr. Ch. Buck. That means that 4 out of the 5 top producing males were not only winners but were titled dogs!

    This is a good place to address another one of the BIGGEST myths in the dog game that says "inbred dogs produce better than outcrossed dogs." This is another load of BULL! Just look at the pedigrees of the above mentioned dogs:

    Ch. Jeep: a 50/50 cross at best. This is a dog that is a combination of a few different bloodlines, but we'll be nice and say 50/50 cross.

    Frisco: Inbred, yes! Out of a father to daughter breeding but still 1/4 outcross via Bolio blood.

    Gr. Ch. Mayday: A dog that was a 4-way cross between Redboy/Jocko/Bolio/Tombstone. Thats right, one of the greatest producers ever is not comprised of more than 25% of any one bloodline in only 2 damn generations!!!

    Gr. Ch. Yellow: Another 50/50 cross!

    Gr. Ch. Buck: A lot of controversy as to how he is really bred, but still at least a 50/50 combination.

    What have we learned from this list? We learned that ALL of the top 5 producing dogs had at least 25% outcross and that most of them were at least 50% or more outcrossed!!! But what do these dogs all have in common? You guessed it, they're MOSTLY winners, coming down from mostly WINNERS! So what is more important, breeding to a bloodline or breeding to a GOOD dog? I believe history tells us that yes, there are exceptions, but the cream always rises to the top and if you want to produce winners, you better go breed to winning dogs!!!
     
    DISCOIII likes this.

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