Top dogs in Europe?

Limey Kennels the biased comment concerning Joe Graham is a disgrace ! some of us remember the early 80's,Joe took so much shit for the old mag but he stuck by it.
Some still remember a lot more than they wanna say cos its 30 odd years ago,but its kinda funny to see "Scotsmans Ch Max" still gives people nightmares !

 

This is what i ment! in my previus posts! still looks like a selfasteam identety crisis on the Reid camp. . you wil not see myself ore others that had nothing to do with Reid blood look for every upertunety ore rezen to pull up what ones was and no longer is!!.
The Biased commend is NOT a discrace but a FACKT, been there saw it happend talkt to the man manny times and was in his house at times to talk stuff over . so dont tell me what is a discrace ore not..... Im not sure who hase nightmares from Max we sure as hell dont if that is what you ment.. I could not care less. dogs won ore lost in that time they quit ore craweld over one mans game dog is another mans cur right . but facts get twisted and myths are created bij people who never knew the dogs ore people in person..

 

Limey you are wrong to say Joe was in any way biased toward any particular bloodline or kennel when it came to the PBN. Joe published plenty of stories from Limey's and many at the time thought he favoured Limey kennel to much, The reason Joe would have rufused to publish such a story on Smokey is that as usual, like the above, it would have been one full of excuses on why Limey's lost. Fact is Max was a better dog than the much larger Smokey. What you may not know is most thought at the time Limey's spotpicked Max for an easy Championship.

There are still other bloodline's around from the early day's not just Limey dog's. Unlike you exagerating & hyping up your dog's at every oppertunity, other's keep their mouth's shut and let the dog's be their mouth peice's.

 

THE TRUTH
BY THE SCOTSMAN
16th March 2002

The man who has written the article on Scotsman's Max is the biggest hypocrite and twister in the dog game. A man trying to grab the glory form the Scotsman. It's my turn now and here is the true story. The people who know me will also know that this is the truth (on my kids lives). Red Eye who wrote the previous article was and still must be jealous of my success. As a Pitbull man he can talk the talk but he never walked the walk. This clown has stabbed me in the back that many times it is unbelievable.
He came to my house a couple of years ago and crawled that far up my arse begging me for information on Max and I gave him it. The biggest mistake I ever made was bringing him into the game dogs. One of his qualities is charming people, he comes across all nice, do you know the type? I do now. Now it's time to put a few things straight. If you have studied his article (The story of Champion Scotsman Max) he makes out he was there at Max's matches. He only ever saw Max in action once, which was against Ch Billy. I brought him as he was a good pal or so I thought.
I had to laugh at the bit where he says in Max's second match against Clyde. He says when I saw Clyde everybody was laughing at my reaction. How would he possibly know he wawft even there? I was there and nobody was laughing, that match was fora very large amount of cash. I am putting this on record he hated Reid's dogs, he said they weren't fast lane. I proved him wrong I showed him fast lane dogs, killing champions and grand champions. Ch Hagar he said wasn't regarded as one of our
best dogs. Our dog had nothing to do with it. He was mine, and mine only this is the point I am trying to make; he tries to take all the credit. Well the only one that should get the credit is myself "The Scotsman".
I bred, handled, campaigned and conditioned my own dogs, only went for the best never spot picked a match and wasn't interested in paper champions. The bigger the scalp the better it was for me. The people who were active in dogs back then knew my ability. At the start I made mistakes, I had no access to sporting dog journals; no nothing that's when I met "No Kidding". I bought a stafford pup out of his Ch Brock dog then I was a terrier man and wanted a drawing dog for foxes. No Kidding had a litter of Pitbull pups, the first I ever saw. The was from Ed Reid's breeding and I fell in love with them right away. Although I didn't have the money at the time I saved up and bought my first Pitbull pup from Peter Skirving in Irvine, Aryshire. I called her Nike I also bought a red English Bull called Prince both dogs where great at their job.
At this time I didn't even know what a treadmill was. Then Max came along.
I gave him to my cousin in partnership then took Max down to No Kidding to let him see it then bought a treadmill for £250.00. At the time I stayed in a small council house with room for only 2 dogs. I decided not to persevere with the stafford and got rid of her then No Kidding wanted to match Pistol into Max, this is,where the real story begins. No
kidding asked if I wanted to match into his Pistol dog at 501bs top. I agreed and took Max to my cousin's house where he was kept as I still had still had the English Bull terrier Prince at home and my Pitbull pup. My cousin only stayed 7 miles away. Back in those days Max was only fed Chappie dog meat mixed with Wilson's dog meal.No special diet, pills, electrolytes etc. I was working as a roofer, my cousin was a miner and when I got home from work I fed and looked after my dogs that I kept at home. Max never got that great conditioning. Max was walked, loved the bike and treadmill but with a very bad hip we were limited as to how much you could do with him, but we did our best. To be honest I was very worried about Max's hip that it would give in on him, as sometimes he would drag his hind leg after a workout.
However my cousin and I went down with the dog and the money and matched No Kidding in his own back yard and Pistol was picked up at 53 minutes to save him. He ran a game courtesy scratch but died shortly afterwards. Max was a throat dog, a killing dog and most of all a very special dog. After my first match I got the buzz. Max was matched into an English Bull Terrier for money not a roll he wiped it out in short order but I never reported it as I didn't regard the English Bull as a good opponent. His next match was to be open to any dog in the UK and this I believe was the best I ever saw. There was a very large sum of money involved, he gave away 20lbs in weight to a dog bread by Frank McPhie called Clyde. Clyde was a monster, he was an ear and leg dog, this match went just under 3 hours not 4hrs as stated in Red Eyes article. In this match there where no turns, no out of holds, Max took a real hammering, infact he lost his entire ear in this match and a hell of a lot of blood. His legs where covered in holes but he still kept working the throat deep and hard and at about 2hrs 45min he flipped the big dog down and kept shaking the throat making whining noises. A trait he did when he sensed the end was near (he was very clever). I asked them to pick their dog up but no they didn't until 2hrs 56mins when Max was working a dead dog. I broke Max off and he was screaming like a banshee. When we put Max in the van he was almost knocking out himself banging against the windscreen to be back at his kill. You would think he had been 5 minutes not 3hrs. When we got him home he started feeling sorry for himself, no wonder. With a complete ear missing, legs peppered with holes his head swollen to monstrous proportions any normal bulldog would have died. If I knew then what I know now he would have been retired. I would like to state on record I have never before or since or likely to ever to see a dog take more punishment and I have seen some classics. His third match was into Limeys, Smokey. My cousin wanted to do the work himself and he blew it. Max I state was only a 44lbs to 461bs dog. If he had been conditioned properly I had him on the scales at 431bs when he was retired and I had become more experienced at conditioning. Smokey was a 2x time winner who had beat Ch Sinbad in the states. Max was 571bs hog fat and he did leave home that morning with a belly full of milk and eggs. Smokey was lean and fit I think he came in at 53lbs but the match was made at 551bs tops. If Max had have been 50lbs Smokey would not have lasted 10 Minutes. Max was all over Smokey but did not have the same bite as he had previously shown, no wonder. It was a very hot humid summer day. Smokey only got into Max once, deep into his eardrum, Max lost his ear in last epic battle. Max was getting tired, Smokey was getting killed. The Limeys could have won by default. But Max won in lhr 17min. After Smokey quit. Max scratched. How a dog went lhr 17min, hog fat in extreme heat is astonishing. If the Limeys did not like Max that's their problem. After this match I wanted something to prove.

I started learning about conditioning properly, and I matched into the best-rated dog in the country that was Ch Billy. Both these dogs had been over 2 hrs in previous contests. When 2 great dogs meet they go the distance, that's the bottom line! Homer, Jeep etc. This time I fed him how a pit dog in training should be fed. I biked him, tread milled him and free run him and a few other things that I learned. THIS WAS THE TIME I BECAME FRIENDS WITH THE GUY WHO WROTE THE ARTICLE. This was the first match Red Eye witnessed in his life. The Limeys rated Billy a very good dog. In my opinion better than anything they ever owned. There was only one survivor out of his 3 matches. No survivors out of Max's. This is the first time that two champions had met in the UK.
Max was 48.51bs Billy slightly heavier. Max was still about 4lbs above his natural pit weight. I knew he went 3 hours at 50lbs and I knew people would be in fora shock. I did not think Billy had superior strength but I think as soon as they were released Max realized he had a fight on his hands. Max used his brain rather than his brawn. J.G. refereed the match. Billy worked all over, Max worked the throat, after 2 scratches each and about 2.5hrs gone Max started sensing Billy was a beaten dog and he turned up the pace.
At 2 hrs 47mins Northern Lad picked Billy up. Billy was unable to scratch and sadly died. Max flew his courtesy scratch. Billy I admit was a great dog, I had nothing but admiration for him. In 4 matches Max went 7hrs 45mins. In his last 2 matches he fought with a badly snapped fang. Two great Reid bred dogs.
Before the Billy match Max was bred to Tanya who was owned by a boy from Wishaw in Scotland. I took Red Eye for a pup as I did the Junk Yard boys. Red Eye bought one he called it Huck. Junk Yard boys bought 2. I personally paid £250.00 plus the stud fee to obtain Tanya for myself I sold my English bull and Nike my Pitbull. I had seen Tanya rolled and was very impressed. I matched Tanya into Limey's Ch Dutch of R.O.M. litter. Tanya was beaten but scratched with a broken leg. I also bought a pup called Rambo. I reared him up and matched him into Ch Masada. He lost in lhrs 27mins with no turns or out of holds. He ran one of the gamest scratches you could ever see. Sadly he lost his life. By this time Red Eye and I had become very good friends. He had reared his Huck pup up and I made the match with the Limey's. Red Eye conditioned and handled but was beaten. He then matched into Jacko, (a Reid dog) and Huck quit. He then bought a pup from NoKidding a white from Carolina Abbey breeding. At this time I only had Tanya and my cousin had Max. I decided to breed Max with Tanya. My first ever litter and only ever litter of Pitbulls that I have bred in my life. Because Huck got beat Red Eye thought I was mad. By this time his brain was being pickled with all the strains of Pitbulls coming into Britain. So he decided to buy Fast Lane (or so he thought). He phoned Lonzo Pratt in the States as he had read about the Gr Ch Zebo exploits. He bought a from Lonzo to get real killer dogs, I kept saying he was mad buying something he had never seen from a man he bad never met. But his mind was made up. Just previously my good friend M.M.from the west of Scotland bred his Reid to Max. A couple of Red Eye's friends wanted pups. I took Red Eye through with his friend. Red Eye paid £300.00 fora pair. These dogs were raised as house pets by a lad called Sammy Marsden. They were brought up in a council flat in Leith, Edinburgh. One was called Paddy the other was Charlie. About a year later I sold Red Eye a pup out of my litter for £150.00. But he gave it to another lad who brought it up as a house pet. This is when Red Eye was telling me Reid bred dogs were useless. We were still friendly so I used to say to him wait until my 2 pups that I kept out of Max and Tanya are older then we will see. We used to argue for hours in a friendly way. I was always for the Reid dogs. He was for the Swamper and Zebo breeding. I only had a small back yard in a council estate, my plan was to keep 2 pups as I believe 2 dogs are enough (for any one man). So I sold Tanya to Yarakin Lads for 300.00. It was my ambition, my dream to breed, raise, match and condition my 2 pups that I kept. There were 5 pups, 2 es that had went to pet homes and Archie who Red Eye gave away as a pet. He had his dreams, fair enough. But not with Reid blood. As this was the only litter I ever bred I gave Yogy and Hagar everything. 100% dedication from the minute they were born. They became my entire life. I really did want to prove a point to Red Eye and No Kidding. No Kidding had imported Ch Swamper from the States from Bobby Hall. RED EYE imported a Zebo bred in pup. So they had their dreams, good luck to them.
Red Eye's pups died in quarantine. When I went to see the in quarantine she did not look like a killer to me. When the came out of quarantine and RedEye had her for a few months I asked him to roll her with Hagar or anything else but he refused. WHY? I think he did not want to look like an idiot. I asked him in front of Road Warrior who became a friend of myself and Red Eye's. Road Warrior did not own a Pitbull at this time. Red Eye bought a pup out of Ch Swamper a black and gave it to Road Warrior to raise. As like myself he stayed in a council house with very little room. He still kept Huck and his Zebo , which he would not even roll. He raised and conditioned his Carolina Abbey . At this time I moved to Newcastle. I met Ray Rock who stayed just a few hundred yards from me. He had a dog called Chainy and Max's litter sister. We lined Hagar to Max's sister. Chainy was matched into a dog. Ray Rock showed me a keep he had been given; this was Ray Rock's first match. I gave him my advise about diet, treadmill, flirt pole etc. I am glad he took it because his dog won in over 2hrs. Red Eye stayed in Edinburgh but managed to rent some land and out buildings in Fife, Scotland. Sammy Marsden offered to live in a caravan to look after his dogs. About this time my own pups were about 18 months old. Yogy was looking very promising and Hagar I thought was very special. I nicknamed him the Deadly Ballerina. Both Hagar and Yogy were a joy to work. Both dogs were kept very fit. Hagar was 38lbs and Yogy was 42lbs. Red Eye knows the work I put into these dogs so does Ray Rock, Northern Lad, No Kidding etc. But I still had to prove my point that these dogs
were fast lane. I went and saw No Kidding and asked if any dog was around at 381b. He told me Gr Ch Bruno. A real ace, a killing machine, a freak of natures (so I was told). Lets get it on I said. This was Hagars first match. No Kidding refereed the match that took place in Scotland at Red Eyes yard. In his article Red Eye states he had no money, bull. He had bought a dog from the states and was renting land; he thought it was the lamb going to the lion. The Scotsman believed otherwise. The Scotsman was the only man who put the money up against Springview. This match gave me great satisfaction. Hagar destroyed Bruno. Bruno only got one hold but he did not get another. Bruno biting fresh air was totally demoralized. Bruno started turning his tail between his legs and crying in distress. Hagar put Bruno down and went straight to the throat at 33mins. Springview conceded the match. Hagar flew his courtesy.

I knew when Springview was sponging his dog he was sponging a dead dog. Say no more he fell at his feet. "Stone Dead". The look on Red Eyes face said it all, as I looked into his eyes I said if that was not fast lane what is fast lane? Hagar was open to any dog in the world at 38lbs but quarantine laws made it highly unlikely. He did the same to his other 2 opponents they didn't even put a tooth on him. Hagar was an ace his fourth match comes later.
Yogy won his first match against Bash. A Reid bred dog. M.M. owned Bash, the breeder of Charlie. I offered f1,000.00 for Bash but M.M. wanted to match me. A good dog man. I was going to give Bash to Road Warrior, as a partnership. Before the match M.M. said to me I could have Bash if he lost. I told Road Warrior to jump at the chance to take him. He did not. Red Eye jumped in and took Bash and put him on his yard in Fife, Scotland. Bash lost as game as they come lhr 17mins. Bash gave away 1.5lbs to Yogy. Yogy became open to match and became a Ch. I phoned Red Eye to match his Carolina Abbey into an old broad owned by the Northern Lad. Gilly was her name, lx W, Ix L. Red Eye's quit he was gutted! I told him to get Charlie and Archie back the ones he did not rate. Charlie was about 3 years old and had still never seen the square. Hagar and Yogy were both Champions. Archie had never even seen a pit. Red Eye did get Charlie back. I wanted Max to get his R.O.M. the hard way. Charlie was being looked after by Sam Marsden on the farm at Fife. I was still in Newcastle. I wanted Charlie to match into Ch Klogger. Red Eye was not keen, as he had only ever matched 3 times, and lost all 3. I kept on at him I had seen Charlie roll when he was a pup. Red Eye reluctantly agreed as I told him he had nothing to lose, as I would put all the money up for Charlie. Ray Rock was with me when the match was arranged Red Eye wasn't. Red Eye traveled down and stayed with me. Sam Marsden conditioned Charlie for the match, Red Eye handled Charlie. Charlie stopped Klogger in lhr 18mins. Klogger quit. I was delighted. People were now starting to notice. Red Eye started getting very friendly again, praising Reid breeding. What else could he do? But he stabbed me in the back when No Kidding phoned him to see if he had anything to roll into one of his great Swamper prospects. Red Eye took Archie from a lad who had raised him as a house pet Archie was as fat as a pig, Red Eye never told me anything about this roll happening. I WAS SICK BECAUSE ARCHIE WAS CH HAGAR AND CH YOGY LITTER BROTHER!
I think No Kidding was trying to take a liberty; I had invited them both to great matches in the past. Archie demolished the Swamper prospect. It didn't half back fire on No Kidding. Red Eye phoned me after the event all excited. I went to see No Kidding and he told me how Max was not fast lane and would not live with his Ch Swamper. I just said to him I would take Ch Scotsman's Max out of retirement and match Ch Swamper for any amount of cash. He did not take my offer up. I think he got the message. Talk is cheap. No Kidding was charging f1,000.00 stud fee for Swamper. I had only bred Max a handful of times. Hagar twice and Yogy twice. One of Yogy's matings, was from a couple from London, with a Reid bred . What a waste these dogs were, very lightly used. This was because these puppy peddlers were still not giving Reid stuff credit.
Shortly after this Red Eye matched Charlie and Archie inviting everybody. Myself, Junk Yard boys, M.M., my cousin, Road Warrior and other owners of other dogs and their friends. Charlie won easy making him a 2x W. Red Eye was in the pit with Archie for about 15 minutes into the match when the police and R.S.P.C.A. busted in. Catching about 36 people. Out of everyone who got caught about 5 got a small sentence (12 weeks I think). They were the people CAUGHT IN THE PIT. Including the landowner and a couple who had previous convictions for badger bating. I was caught alongside the rest of the spectators. The spectators only got small fines of about £300.00. I WAS THE ONLY SPECTATOR CHARGED ALONGSIDE RED EYE AND A FEW OTHERS AS AN ORGANIZER. Well I wonder? Who stuck me in as an organizer? I got a very good lawyer. They had no proof what so ever that I was an organizer. I WAS NOT ON ANY PROSECUTION WITNESS AS STATED BY RED EYE, AND WAS STANDING IN THE DOCK ALONG WITH THE REST ACCORDINGLY. WHATEVER MAY BE RED EYES REASON FOR DOWNING MY GOOD NAME IN THE DOGS I CAN ONLY PUT DOWN TO JEALOUSLY. After the trial I did not get out of the dogs as stated by Red Eye. After the trial I matched Ch Yogy into Gr Ch Ned. from Southern Ireland. Ned also having been over 2hrs in a previous contest. I must admit I was scared, not of Ned but being caught and losing everything I had worked for. Two Irishmen and Ned's owner travelled by car from Dublin to Edinburgh where I was staying. Frank McPhie and J.D. of the Junk Yard boys were to be forfeit holders.
The contracts were made. I put f1,000.00 forfeit so did Ned's owner, the Junk Yard boys were holding the venue in Glasgow. The Irish were travelling to Scotland, as there was no way I wanted to cross the border, as I was high profile. At this time I was partnership with Bash and the pup I got from Ray Rock Max's sister Hagar mating. I gave the pup to Road Warrior. I matched Bash and put the money up, Road Warrior conditioned and handled Bash. Red Eye gave Bash back previously so that he could get the black Swamper back from Road Warrior. "Idiot!" That's what he really thought of the Reid breeding.
Five weeks into Ch Yogy's keep with one week to go before a match I told Road Warrior as I trusted him about the match. There was only 3 people going. Myself, Road Warrior and M.M. Well how did Road Warrior repay me? All of a sudden I got a phone call from Junk Yard boys telling me to meet them. Thinking it was about the match what happened next sickened me to the core. Road Warrior told Red Eye about the match, he was told to tell nobody "ESPECIALLY RED EYE". If I won this match my dream would be fulfilled. Red Eye went straight to Frank McPhie and J.D. travelling 50 miles saying it was all over Edinburgh about the match. BULL!'I was the last person wanting to be caught. So J.D. said he was not going to hold the venue. I could not blame him I believe Red Eye did everything in his power so the match would not go ahead because if I won I would have achieved everything that he couldn't. J.D. offered me the forfeit money back, I didn't accept it. I did not know what to do at this time so I told them to hold onto it. I went home my head was up my arse by this time I trusted no one apart from M.M. and my cousin. I phoned the Irish lads and told them what had happened so I had no option but to travel to Ireland but me and Ned's owner put the match forward 1 week so no one knew. No One! I contacted a friend who wasn't into Pitbulls. He took me in his car to Stranraer. I took both Hagar and Yogy with me as both dogs got on like a house on fire. 2 pit Champions, 2 great friends, you had to see it to believe it. No travelling kennels just 2 loving pit dogs cuddled up in the back of the car. If i were stopped you would not believe they were fighting dogs. Both unmarked.

 

Is there more to that story? It was a great read.

 

i only reposted the above article to show that max had the odds stacked against him aswell in the smokey match .

 

dont know if youve read this thread irish pitbull ????


http://www.game-dog.com/showthread.php?t=36387

 

Thanks Skipper

 

errrr the so called truth stuff in that mag was also seen threw rose tinted glasses !!

LK i here you and your right on certain facts and myths,another mans gamedog is another mans cur,2 of my old staffords have been slaughtered on here,the guy knocking wasnt even born in 86 i dont think !! Joe had skipper dogs,he held back some dodgy show reports,as you prob no kennels were puttin show reports in pbn and didnt own a dog.
30 odd years is a long time.

 

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=326203

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=389386

 

i heard that radonic's jumbo rom is a class producer,http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=offspring&dog_id=9304,he prduced a world class dogs,guys who haved Jumbo knowed exactly what to do with him,they cross him with other staff and get a super,complete dogs,Jumbo is a grand sire of world recorder,a dog who went over 6h!!!i heard that in this days it is very hard to find a jumbo dog,only in some parts of Balkan where jumbo lived.... Alot of breeders of jumbo rom dogs also don t want to sell their dogs.....
Brother of Jumbo,Gipsy was also super producer...he is a grand sire of one of the best game dogs on the world ever,his name is CH Rep he went over 2h in all his matches,father of Rep is Giroux rom,champ dog 4xW,1xD,1xL...also perfect game,he also went over 2h....Giroux produced alot game dogs,CH's.also GR CH...http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=offspring&dog_id=212467...on this link u can see some offspiring,but on balkan base there are full offspirings of this dog...i don t know alot of this dogs cause i am not from balkan...but i saw with my eyes some of this...but what i heard,legendary jumbo blood continue to live in new Champ. dogs

 

hi all. can any one help me to find good vili blood line breeders in europe. i can't find any websites

 

hi, because they dont have websites

 

that proves no mouth and more balet dancing than fighting

 

Western Europe

Zw Moses

Eastern
Radonjic Jumbo, Gypsy, Mr Indian

 

Why Moses??????
ZW in my oppinion is far away from being serious at all!

Jumbo as a Producer, Gipsy for being a producer aswell as the first proven deadgame dog in the Balkans!!!!

What about Dylan, LK stuff, Janssens, BvH shall I go on?

 

Moses not from the Breeder, ZW never was serious, my opinion.
But i dont wanna do bad Mouthing about Breeders from the past, ZW is out of Dogs and thats the greatest gift from ZW for the Bulldogs.
But Moses make good Races under L.A, and i like the type of Moses, looks like a King, and a real Warrior with a greater Heart than an Elephant full of love for all Humans that be friendly to him, its a very Personal thing with Moses and Me.

LK, Dylan, Janssens, BvH, Bros, Borderline, BadBoys (and much much More) all have good and Top Dogs, but for a Top Dog its a personal thing.

Jumbo great Producer and more than Dead Game in my Eyes (last 10 Minutes of his Race are very Awesome), Gypsy as Producer and Deadgame, and Mr. Indian as Producer (but i really like that stuff) and vili, thats my Personal Top dogs of Europe.

Titles etc doesnt worth at all.

 

So there will be definitely my first female the Top Dog of Europe!!!! LOL!!!!
She was one of a kind! Believe me!
Liked your answer and I do feel you!

Greets!

 

Now we can Talk
Yeah its really Personal, atm Top Dogs are my Bitch and my old Deaf and 80% blind Male at 15 years, but no one knows their ped and my dogs, thats the reason we must talk about dogs every knows or everybody heard or read from.

 

Sure! LOL!
There are only a few once in a lifetime dogs! And my first American Pit Bullterrier female was an eye opener to me!!!!!

A friend of mine directed me toward her after a two years research!

And damn she was acting exceptional even as a puppy! Smart as hell, self confident and daddy´s darling!

As she died at 14 years it took my heart apart!

Every other dog I do keep has to show it´s best to at least fit a little in her footsteps!!!!!!!