Too many blind breedings

amen!!!

 

Beleive me, there is no perfect system. I mostly use this system if I am unfamiliar with the dogs upfront in the pedigree. There is nothing that replaces knowing all the dogs in the first 3 generations! For example take my pup Gatti. Here is his ped:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=332513
He scores a 49 to the person that doesn't know or understand the 1st 3 generastions. I bought this dog because I had Paz Jr. on my yard and know who owns him. I also know who owns Kane and Cosmo. Cosmo has no teeth. So she will never have the chance to earn any points in my system. But I know the dog and what it's done to loose those teeth, lol. I know Paz jr. is an unofficial rom dog. No points there to the person that doesn't know or understand him.You can't replace knowing all of the dogs personally. Ivan is throwing some serious bulldogs! You wouldn't know this if you didn't know the dog.

Now take this pedigree:
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=134750
This pup scores a 72. I don't know anything about his parents. heard about a few in the 3rd generation but not enough to really know how the pup should turn out. Needless to say, I bought 5 of them today. These pups are bred to win. At the end of the today no one likes a loser. I want the winners. if I had 2 choose between the pup with 72 points or the one with 49 points in my system. i would take the one with 49 points anyday. This is just something i do personally.

 

Here is something else I have found and try to live by when it comes to breeding.

So many times I see people get on this board and ask, “how does this breeding look?” and “opinions on this breeding I just made” etc. There are also numerous posts regarding “what crosses best?” and “what’s the best bloodline?” “Is this breeding too tight?” And the list goes on and on. I hope that anyone who has ever asked one of these questions reads this.

First of all you have to ask yourself, “What’s the goal of this breeding?” If the answer is anything less than create dogs that compete and win at the highest level then you should not make the breeding! If you make a breeding based solely on: looks, mouth, air, ability, to preserve a “bloodline,” or even gameness, you should not make the breeding. If your brood stock has any of the above mentioned traits but does not have the ability to win, then don’t breed the dog. Why? Because our dogs were created to compete and win and anything less is a deviation from the breed standard. While some people may like certain “styles” or “traits” over others, the goal should be the same . . .to take home the blue ribbon!!!

If your “brood stock” has not shown the ability to WIN, then why breed? Why try to create more of what could not win in the first place? This is not to overlook the most valued trait we love about bulldogs, gameness. However, I have seen all to often people that make breedings with not a single win between the sire, dam, and grandparents (first 2 generations) or even worst, 3 or 4 generations only to claim that they were all “game.” What a load of bull. If they were just honest with themselves they’d admit that they would have been much better off breeding to ANY Champion then breeding to more winless dogs, regardless of bloodline.

Here is where many will want to jump in and say, “What about so-and-so, he or she was a cur/cold/untested dog and they still produced?!” We all have heard about the exceptions, but do you really want to base your time, money, and effort hoping to have the exception to the rule? Hoping to have yet another subpar dog out producing him or herself is a complete waste of time and resources 99% of the time, yet people will point to the 1% and use that as a reason to breed to something that not even the best dogman in the world could win with. When you really think about it, it’s completely STUPID!

So why is it so important to breed to winners? First of all you know breeding to a Gr. Ch. is not just breeding to the best dog on one person’s yard but he has proven him or herself to be the best over many competitors. He has accomplished the most important task of the breed, which is to compete and win over the competition. Secondly, history has shown us that most of the best producing dogs were first winners. That’s right, pick up an old book/magazine and see for yourself. Let’s take a look at the old SDJ’s R.O.M. list to drive this point home. The top 5 producing dogs on the R.O.M. list (regardless of what dog you really believe is #1) is: Ch. Jeep, Frisco, Gr. Ch. Mayday, Gr. Ch. Yellow and Gr. Ch. Buck. That means that 4 out of the 5 top producing males were not only winners but were titled dogs!

This is a good place to address another one of the BIGGEST myths in the dog game that says "inbred dogs produce better than outcrossed dogs." This is another load of BULL! Just look at the pedigrees of the above mentioned dogs

 

Just my 2 cents, Leave the breeding to the proven breeders. Most with any sense have dropped the titles when advertising, and if you do not know, or are not personally referred to a yard, then you are not going to know what you get anyway. The game standard is truth, and if your not up to the integrity, your just low hanging fruit. And those just breeding for pet replacement if you can't cull those you don't keep, than just buy a pup.

 

I allways told that I like to bred dogs not peds some dogs deserve be bred and feed some don't I agree with mr.futuristic.

 

9 times out of 10 the good dogs have good peds So the ped must mean something!

 

samething I think wardog

 

Wardog, I like that system alot. But now a days real dogmen aren't posting show results and a few people have private yards, so when people do see the pedigree they don't know what there looking at. If the breeding isn't justfied, then it shouldn't be done. I get annoyed when I see people doing breedings base on attitude and pedigree.

 

very true, this is why it is best to buy dogs from people who you are familiar with. There are still real dogmen that post it on the peds. They just might use some kind of code you need to know about. Still some just post it on the ped awhile after the fact. I think it is impressive to know how many match wins you have in a 3 or 4 generation pedigree. Also anyone that saw my post earlier comparing 2 pedigrees, the owner changed the ped so it is not the same one i originally posted. Just a side note

 

*applauding* SO TRUE!!! The thing I hate though is that people who do test can't breed their dogs without other people telling them they shouldn't...:confused: I have been through that before...

 

Just a thought but,,, I wonder how many people would be breeding these dogs if they had to keep and use everything they bred?

Like I said, just a thought...

 

I have to say that it pays to get winners in the ped true enough

but it dosnt matter what the ped looks like(the ped does matter)because you can get a pup from a litter that comes from a good family but the first three gen of dogs are untested
and the pup turns out to be good and produce

hey its a dog that has to be raised and proved so untill you prove it all you have is paperwork

I would love to know everything about every dog in a ped but I cant so I stick to a family that Im familiar with

and expect the worst and pray for the best cause at the end of the day its just 50/50
on any pup nomatter how much I like it

 

I keep hearing pretty ped this and pretty ped that..I personally think the term "pretty ped" is an opinion and nothing more...My opinion of a pretty ped is different from many others..

 

the way i see it the term pretty papers is aimed at the breedings done for the fact that it looks good on paper nither dog has earned its chance to reproduce. the term is used very loosly. it shouldnt offend anyone who practices testing there stock. sometimes you will see guys inbreeding on a dog that hasnt been tested for the reason of the ped looking good on paper for any new guys reading this thread that is not cool buddy. good hounds are where you find them there is nothing carved in stone when it comes to breeding these dogs. the best thing you can do if you are planning on being a good breeder is STICK PROVEN DOGS. if you are not going to do it then find another breed of dog because these are not for you. Nobody worth owning your dogs will come get anything from you if your dogs have not been tested an thats just real. so at the least have someone that does them look at your hounds for you an bring back the ones worth sticking.

 

Out of all the things that piss me off about bad breedings, the one that pisses me off the most are: breedings that are done with dogs that are between 12-15 months, just because the pups are "hot as hell". I wish i new more honest people in these dogs, i can count all the good one i know on one hand. If i wasnt obsessed with the breed i would've quit long time ago.:o

 

Thank you button for that post

 

Right, there are MANY great dogs out there that don't have 2xw or Ch. by their name and never will, on the other hand there might ever be more bullshit out there with those titles beside their name! It's always good to see the dogs first hand, there are simply too many clowns with dogs that want to make them into famous dogs. To report titles these days you have to be retarded!

 

AMEN 2 that brother

 

2nd that AMEN

 

the truth is anyone that says a ped isnt worth shit doesnt know shit, ive seen one honest bulldog with a shitty ped behind it and it was a fluke that it turned out that way, pisses me off people breeding for the ped behind it but pretty much every deep game dog has agreat ped behind it but of course your gonna breed best to best with good peds , but even they are just peices to the puzzle, and somtimes even they dont all fit together.