The true color differences from the strain of the Old Family Red Nose.

Over the years there has become a misconception of what a OFRN dog is suppose to look like.
This mostly started in the last 20 years.
I believe this was to try explain why they dogs didn't look a certain way.
I will leave their explanations be for now,
I will only address my dogs which came from the various bloodlines of the OFRN strain.

I want people to take note I wrote strain for OFRN and bloodlines for which we obtain our red dogs.
When referring to OFRN there has because the misconception Old Family Red Nose meant only the bloodline from Hemphill.
This isn't so.

There will be 2 breeders I will address of this thread about OFRN.
Both I have been to their yard and seen their dogs.
My reference to them is to explain why dogs from their bloodline take on many different appearance which the novice owner of a red dog doesn't understand.

First I will address Robert Hemphill's dogs.
Why Bob's dogs are different is because all of the dogs we used from his bloodline was with in a couple (2) generations of dogs he owned.
Our dogs didn't come from the most known breeder of dogs from Bob, Jacob Wilder.
Ours came from Grover Spearman (Maud) same was Tom Mullian's dog Flame (litter mater sister to Maud).
When Tom bred his female dog it was to a dog bred by Robin Lambert.
The dog Tom bred to was Apache's Red Ty who was whelped off Robin's dog Flame which she was later sent to Jacob Wilder.
In UKC's fashion of the time, they put Flame's name of the current owner, of any pups bred down from her in a pedigree.
But on the original UKC papers of Ty, Rusty Jake, etc. it will say on their papers Lambert's Flame.

About 1989 and 1990 I wrote some letters about Robert Hemphill dogs.
In the letters I included ads of which Bob ran in "Pit Dogs, the way we like them." aka "Your Friend & Mine."
The ad was from August 1952.
In the ad Robert states the colors of his dogs.
"The colors range from buckskin, varying shades of red to a deep copper color."

He also writes,
"Occasionally I have a brindle or a red with black nose."

I wrote these letters over 20 years ago.
After they appeared in "The Gazette" by ADBA,
no ever dispute the letters.

In the first letter I tried to explain why so many of the different bloodlines from the OFRN strain also had different colors as Bob's did, which he referred too.
I also wrote about Hemphill's Geronimo's daughter and the grand daughter of Ch. Butcher Boy on the top side and on her bottom side was Skaggs' old blood of Bob Hemphill being a dark red brindle.
Her name was Mitzie. DOB 7/11/1967.
In the 1968 Bloodlines Journal you will see in the magazine how Clarence Yates of Burlington MI. owned her.

 

In the second letter I wrote was in 1990, of which can tell because the new shows dates for 1991 was listed.
In this letter I agree which Richard Stratton of the color of OFRN dogs of the past of which I dispute my friend Spartacus' letter in response to Richard's letter.
Again, no letters of dispute to mine.
Hard to argue with the written fact by the person at the "time" it was written and happened.
I also wrote in the second letter about Robert Hemphill's ads in "Your Friend & Mine" of breeding Dibo into his dogs.
Here it people for you read.
If want to dispute someone, then you will have to dispute Robert Hemphill, Richard Stratton and myself.
Believe what you want but don't dispute others until you can show proof as I did over 20 years ago!!

 

When I went to Robert's yard 80 percent of his dogs were black nose in the middle 60's.

So when I went to Jacob Wilder's yard in the 70's I was not disappointed.
Same variations of colors.
I know many will want to dispute this because their belief is Robert and Jacob only had red/ red nose dogs which isn't true, as was shown in Robert's 1952 ad.
Jacob's yard didn't start to take on more red color of dogs until the 1980's. The latter part when Ron Sykes join in with him as a partner. This also was about the time more and more of the dogs from those breeding started to show "Widow's Peak" coats and mask on their face.

For a minute lets reference history of Jake's dogs', colors from 1973. Not even 10 years after Robert pass away.

Once again the written word by the person at that "time".
In this post I will include a letter of Jacob Wilder to Don Killen.
In this letter please take note a couple of thing pertaining to the color of Jacob Wilder's dogs.

Jacob writes:
"I am unable to furnish certain colors, As most of my dogs are RED, BLACK, FAWN, AND BRINDLE."

How can anyone who owns or breeds from either of these bloodlines can question colors of other breeders of the Old Family Red Nose strain when those same colors and markings are within your own bloodline?

Now for my credentials,
I have seen more red nose dogs, from every OFRN bloodline, then anyone alive today.
I have bred more OFRN dogs then anyone who is alive today.
I have produced more recognized champions then an other breeder in history of the Old Family Red Nose strain!

http://ironlinekennels.com.futuresite.register.com/_wsn/page3.html

History can not be changed but like I have saw over the many decades, only the owners..
YIS.

 

Thanks for the read IM.

 

Interesting info.

 

thanks for the info IM.I have a friend who is intent on one day owning an OFRN so this info will be good to pass along.He and for the most I too thought they were always red.boy i love learning thanx again

 

so he had sometimes dogs that came out brindle or red with a black nose . i thought you said this does'nt happen . dibo was bred into the ofrn . the thing is you don't know what someone did in their breedings useless you were there .

 

What did you miss the point?
The point is, he had them in his yard.
There were other bloodlines involved in his yard not just Lightner!
You do have to go by what they say.
Robert or Jacob never had all red/red nose dogs in their yard!
I know for a fact you can't get a black nose from 2 red nose, that genetics!
No Dibo had OFRN in him as Stratton wrote. He came down from Bruce's Jerry who was known to be the heaviest of the OFRN strain.

 

i'm just asking a question . i just know if your not there when the dogs are bred you never know what was bred .

 

Kind of hard to dispute what they personally wrote in their ads, don't you think? If they claim they had other colors then what is told today, well you have to go by what they wrote at the time.BTW nowadays you don't have to except stories of how a dog is bred. You can DNA test the dogs. Yes, I know it still can be faked but it makes much harder to do.