The Staffordshire must remain a multi-purpose dog

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]In each post we discussing the game or the Staffordshire's validity as aworking breed but I would like to ask a question: this famous "game” is actually the dowry that must be put at the top of the selection? And most importantly, really exist as we know it today? In every post we always speak on gameness and on the validity of Staffordshire as a working breed. I would like to ask a question: This famous "game" is actually the character that must be put at the top of the selection? The "sportmen" tell us that if we breed without testing for the game as they believe should be done, our dogs are to be treated as a curs and us as a "criminals “who destroy the breed... but the way they test their dogs is really effective? The way they raise or preserve the breed is really the best? How many "characters" talking about the game of their dogs, but they are actually game? Hear their stories we would say yes and we should say that our Staffordshire were created by them... but the reality is this? [/FONT]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Say that you have a dog that is 100% game is alie because every dog has his breaking point. For example, a dog seen for two hours with three different dogs does not confirm us that he’s game again the next time ... or that he didn't stop at two hours and one minute the next time. And even if arrived at two hours and one minute, who tells us that he doesn't stop at two hours and 2 minutes... or that he doesn't stopi f compared with 4 dogs ... etc, etc, Even the "death game dog" does not assure us of being game because many dogs arrive at the point of death without even realizing it. And, doing an absurd hypothesis, if we can resurrect a dead gamedog we should be sure that he will push to that same point the second time ... and who says it won't stop the third? Then the game is a genetic trait that should be put above everything else? The truth is that the game is a variable so great that just talking about it is a never ending discussion. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Staffordshire is an unspecialized Bulldog which must remain a multi-purpose dog, tough, combative and GAME in the sense that it must confront adversity that meets with the mental toughness that every good bulldog possesses, and to have this type of GAME certainly there is no need to test the dogs in the pit. To judge whether a line of Stafford is good or not you must judge for what the line is selected and not thinking that only dogs seen in the pit or that only those who originate from the selection for the pit are good dogs. I’ve seen a lot of dogs pit tested, some were excellent multi-purpose dogs, others were just crap without any skills other than biting another dog... dog’s that although game I wouldn't have even for free[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Many people criticize we breeders because we produce puppies or selecting differently from sportmen (for what that word does mean) but I believe that a good breeder is worth 100 sportmen, because they do not help in any way our breed and because they eliminate a lot of good dogs because of their tests that are devoid of all logic. Compare every time the Staffordshire with the Pitbull is a real bullshit because are two bulldog with common origins but now too different to be compared. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Best regards[/FONT]

 

For a mistake this message was posted with many words stuck ... I hope it is understandable because can't correct it.

 

Yeah ok. So you breed show dogs and want to breed show dogs that can play and weightpull etc??
You're way of thinking is not so different than the guys who ruined the breed. Do what you want if that makes you happy, but dont say your dogs are game and whatnot when they are not.
Thankfully there are people out there who still breeds the true Sbt, the way they always should have been bred

 

first you change the name of the breed to suit your new registry & now you criticize the ppl who look at their dogs before breeding
your thinking is flawed !

 

Your theory on gameness just shows a lack of understanding. Anything can be broken under enough pressure, you can break steel, and you can crush a diamond! That will not prove that those materials are as easy to break as softer materials.

I am not under the impression that you have to game test all the dogs you breed- but the breeder needs to have deep understanding and experience of breeding game dogs. I would personally prefer to buy a pup from an experienced breeder with a good record that never mentions the word game test! Than to buy a pup from an inexperienced breeder claiming he had game tested both parents.

When reading your post I get the impression that you are aware of the fact that your breeding practises are flawed, but you are trying to defend your ways. The breeding practise you describe is nothing special; there are many breeders out there that breed like that. While there are very few that actually has produces successful dogs in all arenas.

When someone is selecting a breeder, they must realize that they sponsor that breeder and his breeding program. When you buy a pup from a poor breeder you take an active part in forming the breed for the future! If you take your time and carefully choose a breeder with a good breeding program and a good record, that is what you promote for the future.

 

Hello, I do not criticize the ppl who test their dogs before breeding them, I criticize those who say arbitrarily that the only way to test the dogs is the pit. Sure, if I have to compete in the "box" I must choose a line that is tested in the box ... but if I have to hunt badger's I must choose a line that is tested in the badger hunting... and If I choose the dogs for hunting boar I must choose a line that is tested in the boar hunting... and all of them are good, honest bulldogs deserve the same respect. If my words are not clear is because my English is not good!

 

Thanks OnTheRocks for fix mai first post.

 

Bulldogkennel, it's indeed each man his own choice of what he would like to see or want from his dogs.
I don't have a problem if anybody just breed for hunting dogs or show but know your limits and stop calling those dogs Game or Bulldogs because they are not that.
So simple is it, too many stafford owners claim they have dogs that can stand the test of time, while only 5% of those people actualy take a good old fashion look at the dogs they have.

You say comparing the SBT with the APBT is bullshit, i don't agree if you want to breed working dogs, they need to be compared with the APBT.
These dogs have been perfected over time to be the best gamedogs.
So imo that's the standard to follow and if you can't breed working SBT that can compete with the APBT, there's just no need too breed them anymore.

A dog might be game but if that dog lacks air, mouth and abilty and you can't breed that in your line of dogs with SBT's, i would say drop them or seek improvement.

I could name many breeds who work small game like badger or fox, even can name a couple of breeds that are used for boar hunting but put them in the [] with a gametested pitdog and they wil run away like hell because they can not handle that kind of pressure or continue when they are tired or beat up.

 

the irish changed the name so did the americans, why cant italians do the same?

now bulldogkennel, gameness is only proven in the pit. hunting, weight pull, etc.. just proves any dog's drive (ie prey, civil, etc..) there's no way around it, sorry. one must be clear when talking about their dogs, breeding and must make it clear before they sell their pups.

 

what did the american change ? the apbt was registered before the SBT, they changed the name to ST & the AST for the show bred version of the APBT which has sunsequently become a different breed

did the irish change the name or was it ppl outside of Ireland that first coined the name IST, to differentiate between show ring dogs and dogs bred for work from SBT's tested in Teastas Mór , etc...

if names were changed it was done so due to a breed going in a different direction or to differentiate a strain that was tested in some sort of working trials

why should an Italian Registry change the name ? what is the purpose of doing so ? they have in no way given a justified reason to do so; if they wanted to change the name I personally prefer one of Jackos suggestions "Black Country Dogs" (I think it was), but to change to such a name would require a better understanding of the dogs , gameness, etc... by the Italian Registry and a clear cut set goal as to where they wish to take their breeding and how to do so

 

The IKC has decided to change the name to a certain type of dog in Old Time Staffordshire Bulldog because has also changed the standard to fit the line of sporting staffordshire in Italy. In fact, the IKC, also recognizes the SBT and the Irish Staffordshire giving at each variety equal in dignity and rights.

Many say that a dog that hunts badger at high level is not a bulldog and can not be game, but I've seen pit tested in the box turn his face at the badger into his tunnel.

A pitbull of this kind is not more game because has stopped its action on badger?

Many experts have forgotten what it means bulldog: this word mean dog who fights the bull... because the bulldogs are born to fight against other animals and not against dogs. The dog fighting came after and is a "modern" selection than the original.

If we want to talk about history we must give due weight to the reality of the facts and do not always "pull the rug" from the part that most interests us.

I am also convinced that many people wash their mouths with the word gameness but never really test their dogs...

In Italy the IKC ave a test called TAG and is a test that assesses, in 3 or 4 minutes, the most important genetic behavioral characteristics of a bulldog: hardness and the desire to face a situation that requires physical confrontation. Do not tell us whether a dog is game, but it certainly tells us if a dog has is balls.

The test is very selective and 70% of the dogs subjected to it can not pass it. I have seen many breeds crying to the hardness test, and also pit tested in the box to cry at the TAG. This does not diminish the value of the pit if it is right for the box, as well as hunt the badger or pass the TAG does not diminish a Staffordshire.

 

just my opinion if it means anything.

gameness is defined as a determination to master any situation and never back down out of fear. this applies to animals and humans alike.

personally i think a dog that goes at any task that poses them clear danger and with showing no sign of quitting, can be considered "game".

there are obviously different types of game and trying to compare them is pointless. many dogs will go to the end with another but may be useless in the field and vice versa.

evryone is entitled to their opinion of what game is but my opinion is that its not just a dog v dog thing.

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100% agree

 

try telling a dog that doesnt quit of one of these fukers, that its not game

 

the awesome honey badger. we dont gett those in England or northern Europe.
it would take a good dog or any other animal to better one of those fine little beasts. i do know that the north American badger is not on parr with our european ones and the honey badger just takes the piss. lmao

 

we dont get them in ireland either. i'd be gone like the wind if i saw one of those bastards over here

 

i shot a big badger about 4-5 times with a 22 lr in wyoming but just got him pissed for about 10 minutes he chased me and kept on biting the tire of my quad. tough animals and can give a good stafford a decent test but no match whatsoever to my experience. coons arent too far behind either but its just fun for a good hunting dog

wolverines are tough contenders too

 

you guys sure have some strange looking animals over there

 

Has there been any record of a dog getting the better of a wolverine? I suspect not

 

bmsbt and bulldogkennel what some strange posts what are you trying to say cause it doesnt make sense , it would be like saying right we have got some greyhounds here we know they are the fastest dogs going but we wont race them against other greyhounds we will race them against breeds that cant run as fast say a labrador and when they beat them we will say there you go told you they was fast .. i think what you are saying is very insulting and shows how little you understand this breed .. everything they have got all the traits you love is from hundreds of years of breeding from dogs that have fought other dogs not from dogs who have jumped over bits of wood or played tag. you are trying to justify your dogs as game because that is what you really want . But listen and understand there is only one way of proving gameness just one way and it aint playing fucking tag or pulling weights etc .so be happy with your dogs but you know in your heart and your head they aint game proven live with it or do something about it stop making ridiculous excuses please ..