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The Colby Dogs

Discussion in 'APBT History' started by F.W.K., Oct 27, 2018.

  1. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. Retired Historican

    The Colby Dogs
    Mr John P Colby was an active breeder for many years and produced some of the best dogs of his time. Much of his foundation stock was from the Gas House and Burke strains, as were the dogs of many other breeders.
    The difference in the quality of the dogs Mr Colby produced was the result of breeding principles he employed. Also, Mr Colby in my opinion possessed a very important attribute, which I refer to as a gift.

    Mr Colby practised a simplified version of genetics, Best to Best, selective breeding

    Best to Best does not mean performing dogs alone. It entails all aspects of the dogs, from performance to pedigree. The most obvious qualities would be gameness, biting power, talent, stamina and a great bloodline. A bloodline is the result of a breeders influence.

    Over the years dogs bred by Mr Colby began to exhibit physical and mental characteristics such as conformation, colour and gameness which distinguished them. These dogs were then referred to as Colby Dogs. Thus we have the Colby Bloodline. People were proud to say, "This here is a pure Colby dog". This sounds simple; and it leads people to ask; why there were not more top breeders? I believe deciding on what is Best to Best is the key.

    I'm not sure that every dog Mr Colby bred to was Dead game; and I'm equally sure he did not breed to every Dead game dog he owned. This is where the gift comes in. It seems to be an in-born sense or ability. I believe most outstanding accomplishments have been made by men who were endowed with a gift for their respective fields.

    I do not believe that man knows enough about genetics at this time to produce great animals; and he most certainly didn't know enough in the days of Mr Colby. Race horse people spend millions of dollars a year, trying to produce great horses, with only marginal success. Similarly, there is no pattern for producing Great dogs.

    The most essential qualities a breeder may possess are; dedication, a gift, a knowledge of Best to Best, and money might come in handy. If a breeder combines these attributes he is likely to produce, with luck, a great strain of dogs.

    It doesn't take too much effort to recall the great Colby dogs of the past. These dogs were bred from the pit and for the pit.

    But all of this brings us to a very important question; When a strain of dogs that were once highly regarded, such as Colby's, stops producing consistently good pit dogs, is this strain still to be considered good? I have heard people say, "I know he's a cur, but the blood is there". While this is true in many cases, I wonder how long we can continue to breed to curs and hope to produce game pit dogs.

    What is good blood and how long will it remain good if we continue to breed to dogs, who do not possess the qualities of their ancestors? While great breeders can breed to dogs who themselves do not exhibit good qualities; can the average breeder afford to take this gamble?

    I have seen strains of dogs that have not produced dogs fitting this description for many years, and people who are active in the sport refer to them as good blood or good brood stock. Many seem to proceed under the assumption, that once a bloodline is good it remains good forever. Many well-meaning people have continued to breed Colby dogs exclusively, thinking all that was necessary to preserve the quality of the strain, was to breed to a dog that had the name Colby on his pedigree.

    I believe that we have to continuously strive to improve the strain, in order to keep it as good as it was or is. It's an accepted theory, that in order for an institution to continue, it must change and continuously seek to improve. To preserve a bloodline, there is more required than just breeding to dogs whose pedigree shows a particular name. Change is required in order to prevent change in the quality of dogs produced. The Colby strain was developed by change.

    I have heard people say, that the dogs of yesteryear were gamer than those of today. Could it be, in some cases, because we have tried to play Pat and in doing so have lost ground. The people that have bred Colby dogs exclusively for these many years, thinking they were doing what was best, have perhaps underestimated their own ability to breed good dogs.

    Many of them have bred dogs for 40 years or more and could have perhaps contributed much more to their own dogs, by using their own ideas and experience. New ideas are necessary in every field. Sports records are consistently surpassed by those not satisfied with repeating someone else's past performance. Last year's record won't win this year's meet.

    Were the dogs of yesteryear really superior? I'm sure many dog men of the past would think we have it too easy, because we don't have to grow secret vegetables and cook our dog's food or boil their water. Penicillin has replaced many old remedies, making better dog care possible. I have read some diets that top dog men used. While some were good, none could compete with any good commercial dog food available in countless supermarkets. The poorest feeder today is able to provide better nutrition than the best feeder of yesteryear. We also have refrigeration and other conveniences.

    It is not my intention to criticise old-timers and their methods. How many of us would be feeding as many dogs if we had to cope with the same adverse conditions? I think our mission however, is to pick up where they left off, emulating their objectives rather than their methods. The Colby dogs of the past, fit the description of good blood, as their pit records indicate. The Colby strain was developed on the principle of Best to Best. When that principle is no longer employed there is bound to be a drastic change in quality. In a very short period of time a great strain of dogs can be reduced to a strain that can do no more than refer to their pedigree and say "My great, great, grand-daddy was a pit dog....I think!"

    Indian Sonny

  2. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. Retired Historican

    Indian Sonny's yard
  3. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

  4. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    This is very well written. I agree with a lot of Sonny"s take. Before anyone jumps funny with what I'm aboit to say, I have personally talked with Louis Colby about this write up. Yes. ( It hurt his feelings deeply ) The Colby Family had to protect themselves from the powers that be when those powers started locking up personal friends of the family. He had to clean up his yard in a big way. No scared up hounds ECT. Being under the microscope is a understatement. Yet Lou and his family kept a breeding program on a much smaller scale.. The Colby line is the oldest, purest, lineage on this planet. 1889 - 2018. Mr Colby still bred great extremely Deep game bulldogs . Being pure in family a judicious cross would certainly make a more rugged hound. Did the line fall off ? Or was it the folks who got them who fell off? Lets not forget that a lot of folks bred Colby dogs just for the sake of making money. Peddling the name Colby. In my opinion thats part of the change. Another part is folks put there on name on them and hung papers. Winning bulldogs improves quality. Performance breeding. I do understand why. Mr Colby didn't want to end up in the penitentiary talking about the life he use to have. So to be fair he didn't do A lot of breeding. Niether did his sons. I can say this with certainty, I have seen with my own eyes pure Colby hounds that would make any Dogman proud . I'm sure FWK has as well as many others. Most of the greatest breeders that ever lived used pure Colby hounds in there breeding program. Maurice Carver said, A Bulldog just isn't a Real Bulldog unless its got some Colby in it. This has been discussed before and my friend TDK wrote a post concerning The Colby lineage. Screenshot_2016-08-08-12-06-11.png
    Soze the killer likes this.
  5. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    Which ones are making noise today?

    Also while I'll go along with what tdk said, then go on to say he was talking about dogs straight from M.C. right? How long had M.C. been gone? What do you think the % of the mysterious Colby cross was at that time? Now without being crossed back in how diluted is it 30-40-50 years later? Are we talking thousandths of a percent that blood? If so why mention it or keep trying to use that old stuff as evidence they're performance dogs still and competing at a world wide level, winning but not show the proof(the current worthwhile performance Colby dogs)
    david63 likes this.
  6. david63

    david63 CH Dog

    Elizabeth Warren said she was Indian.How did it work out not too good.
    Holocaust likes this.
  7. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    #1, If you can read, "TDK" said Maurice housed dogs for many Dogmen. 2nd, 95% of all Bulldogs will take you back to The Colby line. So if own bulldogs they have a lot of hidden Colby in them, as TDK said, way more than will ever meet the eye." I can explain the Real of it to you, but I can't understand it for you " Maybe Jack Kelly can help u. http://www.gamedogshistory.com/breeders-and-bloodlines-by-jack-kelly/
  8. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    I often hear of hidden Colby n these dogs and its true! The one thing you won't hear much is about the hidden OFRN in these dogs.Its there people !
    mccoypitbulls and corvettedex like this.
  9. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog


    SOULDOG Top Dog

    corvettedex and bamaman like this.
  11. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    So none? And thousandths of a percent... glorified staffs these days. Cool got it..

    I can read. And I actually know what that little write up means since Ive sat in his living room and talked to him... yall ain't as close as u fake on here.. you've never met him, never touched one of his dogs, and the closest you've ever gotten to either was here and fb... those are the facts
    david63 and mistabonz like this.

    SOULDOG Top Dog

  13. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

    There is no doubt that the Colby's are the longest standing family breeders of the APBT in the breeds history in the USA. Anyone who would deny that fact would be a fool.

    But the Colby influence in today's modern dogs is inconsequential don't you think? Most of the blood that is popular today hasn't been bred by the Colby's in at least 40+ years.

    I know for a fact in as little as a couple of generations all the work of 1 influential breeder can be lost by anothers breeding decisions.

    david63, Holocaust and mistabonz like this.
  14. mistabonz

    mistabonz Premium Member Premium Member

    I agree! I’m close to tdk as well! I went last winter and built 12 dog houses for the man so I too have experience with him. Go as often as I can.
  15. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    Not the colbys work! Pincher won 700 matches thatll carry on for 5,000,000,000 generations!
  16. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    Some have great to say other nothing but bad.

    We've had our differences and work best apart and not in much contact.

    But these fucking ppl who have never met him who are all his best friends and know way more than the ppl who know him kill me...
  17. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

    He was relevant 100 years ago, I'd of backed a bitch to him no doubt. But today I won't be on the hunt for a Pincher dog to breed to that's for sure.
    david63 and Holocaust like this.
  18. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    It's the same shit every 2 threads, pincher and tdks post... tdk was talking about fucking stampanado in that post for fucks sake. That's how many gens back the "hidden Colby" is....

    Its fan boy nonsense backed up with fantasy and 100 year old story's.

    If they're winning so much shouldnt be hard to post 2 ch/gr ch 75% Colby dogs from the past 5 years...
  19. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

    You can not do that with any of the original influential breeders....Colby, Tudor, Heinzl, Williams etc... Because those guys are not breeding and using those dogs as they originally did. They're either dead or took another path for their own valid reasons.

    I think too many folks get stuck on what happened in the past and are severely kennel blind because of it.
    david63 and Holocaust like this.
  20. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    Can I get a hallelujah from the back please?
    david63 and YellowJohnJocko like this.

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