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Swim keep???

Discussion in 'Training & Behavior' started by 21 dre, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. Dream Pits

    Dream Pits CH Dog

    I wouldn't consider steriods cheating but I don't really see the sense in it when you both could bring a clean dog and see who is the better conditioner and who has the better dog. Same as how you can both juice the dog and still be find out who has the better dog and who is the better conditioner. Why not jus cut out the juice and let's the dogs be? It doesn't really make sense to me
     
  2. Laced Wit Game

    Laced Wit Game Yard Boy

    i dont like juice, imo it takes out the point of the match. you (should be) there in the first place to see who has the better dog and who is the better dogman. with the juice it adds too many variables and aint pure.
     
  3. FrozenEli

    FrozenEli Big Dog

    Makes perfect since, there are shitty fuckers that are in it for nothing but money
     
  4. Naustroms

    Naustroms CH Dog

    Theres already too many variables in a keep, nothing is ever going to be completely even across the board. One person may mill while the other might handwalk only. One might feed high grade food while the other might not have access to the same. Is it unfair that Dog A got awesome food while Dog B got shit?

    Misuse/Ignorance with steroids will hurt your charge more than help it. Misuse/Ignorance with a raw diet will hurt your charge more than help it. Misuse/Ignorance with treadmills, jennys, weight pulling, etc.... get the picture? The stigma behind steroids has been perpetuated by people who either havent used them or by people who have witnessed them used incorrectly. They aren't going to turn chicken shit into super dog but when used correctly it will most definitely help you put more work into an animal.

    Basically it comes down to a man's keep is a man's keep. His job is to bring the dog in breathing and increase its ability to recover after hitting the heat wall. What he feeds, administers, and practices to get to that point is all just personal preference.
     
  5. Laced Wit Game

    Laced Wit Game Yard Boy

    yeah i hear ya naus, but thts the beuty of it.
    you say dog a may eat raw wjile dog b eats kibbles n bits...
    or dog a handwalks while dog b mills..............
    but thats the point of the match, whos the better dogman A or B???

    when roids are involved its hard to tell what did what..........is that dog really a naturally stronger animal or did he wreck the other just cuz he was roided up while the other wasnt....get the point im tryin to make?.....if my dog were to win the pull contest id wanna know for a FACT it was because the animal of my cultivation was a superior animal......if he was all juiced up id be questioning what made him win....cuz im puttin out bad ass dogs or cuz i got em hopped up on shit?!?!?

    dont get me wrong if i was in it just to take the purse then im sure i would advocate the juice............i dunno how to use the shit but i would learn!

    i guess its just what your in it for, different strokes for different folks.........
     
  6. Naustroms

    Naustroms CH Dog

    This is the misconception, do you know its hard to tell what did what or are you speculating? The dog isn't performing a certain way because its "hopped up on shit". When steroids are used its to put more work in a keep with less rest. As a crude example say the dog without steroids can work 3 days on and 2 days off. The dog with steroids can work 4 days on and 1 day off because the steroids allow its body to recover much quicker. This allows the opportunity to work a dog more. This advantage is nothing if the conditioner is not taking advantage and putting in the extra work. And not only extra work, quality work. If someone doesn't know how to properly administer the juice he/she can certainly fuck that dog up but when used right it does its job.

    Its not an issue of gambler vs dogman or whatever. Its an issue of knowing what you're doing to the dog every step of its life/keep and why.
     
  7. 21 dre

    21 dre Big Dog

    Sounds like a crap shoot...like everything else with these dogs, Lol!!!!
     
  8. Rock n Rye

    Rock n Rye Premium Member Premium Member

    LCW I don't think you fully understand what Naus was saying about Roids. What if Dogman B uses supplements and Dogman B uses Roids is it unfair? I don't think so. I was taught how to use them and though the man was very successful I used the more traditional methods and learned from some pretty good men. Roids will not make or break your dog, they won't make him more game.
     
  9. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    when u work muscle u tear them and the roids help repair them at a faster rate so you can work them again the next day....vs one without it has to have rest because the muscles have not yet been repaired to the point where they can be worked again.Any one thats weight lifted are participated in sports know this..thats why folks that lift and dnt juice have to have more recovery time bfore they work the same muscles again.
     
  10. TripleJ

    TripleJ CH Dog

    Belive it or not . Mike not many of the dogs I have worked were not even close to what they THINK there wt will be . that is why the guys that are not sure have some one work there dog for them, And belive it or not A LOT of very good dogs are simi house dogs in these parts. Some couse the area they are at is not safe for them never to be un locked For Sticky fingers. what ever the reason is none of my mined. I do what they ask of me to make them take a trophy home. Thats it, we can get this is better that is better what ever , the truth is there is no perfect way to work every dog, some are good at some thing and some are not. And if we work dogs for some one and they didnt look at them to make sure we are working the right one well that is there fault. And about running a mill I dont understand what you mean. I never have a problem getting a dog to work one. Now I have had some sent to me that were so friggin shy and skittish they just lay down, but that is from not doing anything but chaining the dog and then bring him to me to make him a bulldog, that is part of it and you just have to figure it out to get the dog to do as you want. im not sure if it is couse folks dont have the will to teach there dogs to work the tools are they are just to damn lazy to do it. But I dont care as long as I get my two dollars. and About the aSS use Im telling yall I have seen more dogs over heat and stop on them, then the other way around. And if you have a bulldog you shouldnt need it. But hey Im done yall do as you wish. I think you should just put them on a catmill for 12 hrs a day and feed gunpowder and you will never loose.
     
  11. Lee D

    Lee D CH Dog

    LMAO JJJ....12 hrs and gunpowder...a winning combination
     
  12. sweetscience

    sweetscience Premium Member Premium Member

    people will do what they want,use roids or not.I am more concerned with the long term health of the dog. I think there is a higher percentage, in the long run , the juice is gonna do more harm than good. just my 2 cents
     
  13. Eagle

    Eagle Big Dog

    I see it the same way.
    To me it's not worth a momentary boost, that will have severe consequences down the road for the dog.
    Like somebody else said, if the dog isn't strong to begin, you're taking the wrong dog to the show.
     
  14. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member

    LMAO@to see who is the better conditioner or who has the better dog.

    Naus's two last post ring truth.

    Some of yawl just talk to freely on this site LOL.
     
  15. Lee D

    Lee D CH Dog


    aint that the truth
     
  16. deadgam33

    deadgam33 CH Dog

    Saiy u right man.ppl dont think sometimes.
     
  17. Flipside

    Flipside CH Dog

    I share the same views as Naustrom...too many variables in the game, in conditioning and in the type of dogs.
     
  18. Iron Mike

    Iron Mike CH Dog

    I don't need roids, blood doping, swim tanks or anything else to condition a dog to best of its ability!
    A good conditoner with a good dog will never have too.
    Common sense will take you a lot farther.
    "Keep it simple stupid."
    Dogs are simple animals and creatures of habit.
    Change to much on them, you surly will screw them up.

    These are tricks of the trade, no I won't tell you them.
    My Keep for conditioning will never be made public.
    I spent to much time learning the hard way.
    I've used weights, which I still have for pulling, to swim tanks, treadmills, cat mills, carpet mills, spring pole, etc. There isn't any thing new way any one can teach me in conditioning a dog.

    I will say this for the last time and every one can do as they like,
    first off, there are no magic pill or shot going to make your mutt great.
    Second, the key in bring a dog in healthy & on point is mostly in the feed part of the Keep.
    80% is the feed. Condition hundred of dogs and you will learn sooner or later.

    True, no 2 dogs condition the same but if your Keep is sound then all you have to do tweet it for each dog.

    My point here was so people weren't fooled by using swim tanks, that all.
    Try using swimming in 50 & below weather or like in the North were in Jan. it is zero outside and swim a dog and watch.

    When I help Pinky & the Brian work Rapid Roy to go all the way to Texas, I had to teach him how a dog will heat up going South and Motion Sickness.
    I know the advances and disadvances from a dog going South or one coming North.
    Traveling to someone's door step.

    Good luck ya'll.....
     
  19. Flipside

    Flipside CH Dog

    Great points Iron Mike...well said!
     
  20. Yas

    Yas Big Dog

    Anyone that's written anything i've written on here know's that IMO swimming has absolutely no transference to anything land based.
    Why is it good to have swimming in a 'pre-keep'? Would be interesting to know. Aerobic base? The dog doesn't need it.
    Stress tests are done on a treadmill because it's the easiest way to do it.
    Re: Steroids, you would only see the full benefit of 'chemical enhancement' if the dog had reached it's genetic ceiling and I doubt if there are many of those around.
     

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