stafford x pitbull

ok,im not on about dogs like physco stormer etc.im on about dogs before them or even during those times.an example is the amstaffs they are generally a bit bigger most but i have seen some at small enough sizes but are good working dogs,look at tudors black jack most of the foundation of amstaffs come right of tudors black jack so thatswhat im saying right there that there are plenty of old dogs that have both in them.another fact is that the dogs have evolved since then but in different ways,in depends on the people behind the dogs to,some breed them (evovle for working purposes) and others evolve them for making money and i believe this is the main reason why dogs today dont match the dogs of old when they first were made with both the game staff and apbt both in the dogs genes

 

and just in case you think im making this up here is blackjack ped and he was bred and made amstaffs that where game and no doubt good working apbt x game bred staffs that eventually made the amstffs good working bulldogs

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=15094

 

here is more proof that what im saying is true look at this amstaff pitbull x staff that means yes.look at the ped and go back you can see black jack he is the basis

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=15317

 

read the the text

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=1408

 

yeah sure but they're not SBT's..

 

seems your getting a little mixed up there buk between the SBT and AM STAFF?

 

Oy, Vey!
There is a huge difference between a Staffordshire Bull Terrier and an American Staffordshire Terrier.

Let me give you a friendly advice Buk...

Make sure you know beyond any shadow of doubt that you are debating the same breed before lecturing or insulting other fanciers, otherwise you will be opening yourself up to a lot of hostility and be written off as some sort of ignorant moron.

Not that I am calling you such, but you know what I mean, right?

 

hold up......was g/ch jenny a staff/pbt mix??

 

i know they are but what im saying is there were staffs over here way back that had apbt in them i was just trying to get the best example but i cant remember where i see this subject to prove to you guys..im not insulting anyone i dont want to insult anyone but mix grilled was going down that path with me first so i pulled the first punch.i know what i mean i cant explain it so just leave it at then if thats ok otherwise this is going to take ages to finish

 

No one is saying that there were no such crosses back then. Of course there were APBT x SBT crosses back then who were above average like the Bruno dog, Ned, Sunny and Macho Patch, etc, but the majority of the crosses didn't really live up to the expectations. Some people were even trying their hardest to reproduce another Pirate (APBT x EBT), B&W's Psycho II, Nellie, or Stormer (Stafford x EBT) because they were under the impression that any first gen crossbred dog would have the mythical "Hybrid Vigour".

In my opinion the crossbred winners that are known today were a fluke, genetic mishaps that performed against the odds.
I could be wrong on this, but if the crosses were so much superior to the purebred dogs wouldn't we be seeing a whole lot more crossbred dogs competing today?

 

The other day on here you stated for the whole world to read that there was no Psycho bred dogs left none with psycho within 10 generations...you really are the expert!...you have not got a clue wot you are talking about!...if you want to get personal with the insults...use the PM's...you fuckin retard!

 

...ok which ones? should be easy for you to answer as you say MOST...as said above Duke was pure Staff wot about CH Red warrior?...CH Psycho wasnt pure staff but didnt have any pit in him...you say 'old game bred staffords' wot about the old badger trial dogs many of those where KC dogs which of those had apbt in them? come on show us ya 'homework' lol...and dont start with the your dogs are crap and you probably blah blah blah because that really dose make yourself look a right mug!:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

I heard that an APBT called "scrum half" the mascot of some U.S airforce squadron entered the stafford genepool in the early forties and was behind a lot of of the badger trial dogs of later years.I couldnt say for certain whether its true or not.Id be very interested if anyone else knew anything about him

 

Wel my 2 cents since i have done such a breeding now.

If you look at it from a breed standard is has no use.
If you are looking for just a working dog is should not matter what's behind it.
As long as the dog does it's work.
You take it as you can find it

 

MG why worry about such a comment that he made.
We al know it was foolish.
BH on this board told me that EB was not telling me the truth and that my bitch was out of kessie.
Kessie beeing out of barney x scooby, both out of dino x silver and silver is out of who ?:rolleyes:
If he had already read this board he would have never made such a statement.
Even if people don't do shit with there dogs there are psycho crosses out there with psycho in the ten gen.

 

im not saying i do anything with my dogs i was just saying what i think.plus i not got a problem with physcho bred dogs in any way i like them and as for being in the ten gen i would like to see some even if i had a chance to get a good physcho bred dog i wouldnt think twice about getting one thats for sure

 

Fair enough, could have happened. But on the other hand Irish dogs where imported to the US and entered the APBT genepool as late as the 1960´s by some accounts ive read.

We must remember one thing, there where no official difference between the 3 breeds up until the mid 1930´s. APBT´s where incorporated in the AmStaffs as late as the 1970´s. working Staffords from Ireland where exported to the US as late as the 1960´s etc. There where simply no set in stone borders between the breeds back then.

Some Irish dogs may very well have a few drops of american blood in them! But remember all american dogs have Irish blood in them! Look at the Psycho dogs and compare them with the dogs found in "Colbys book about the apbt"

I have said it before, and its worth repeating. I would have loved to see any of the geezers here sit down with J.P Colby and Joe Mallen to explain they had different breeds.

 

ontherocks.thanks a lot you just said wat i ment to say,i got so frustrated with the people on here because they are to quick to put others down and make themselfs look clever,and i could not say what i ment to say.i know i have read the same thing as you or something very similar.also i would love to see most these so called know alls on here sit down with the like of colby etc and see what they got to say then,i bet they would get in a twist.also someone said that i could be seen as ignorant by posting wat i posted,when in fact most of these people that have posted on this thread in particular are dam ignorant and selfish and they are like kids that are bullys they pick and choose who they want to start an argument with on here.its funny really

 

I was the one who said you were opening yourself up to a lot of hostility and be written off as some sort of ignorant moron, because you were trying to back up your statement about how there were a lot of APBT blood in the game bred staffs by using examples of what happened in the US in the early years of the APBT/AM Staff history over there.

I would like to see pedigrees backing up your statement of how there was APBT blood in most game bred Staffordshire Bull Terriers though and not pedigrees showing how the APBT and Am Staffs were once the same breed.
Please do not reply with something like

" well, in the late 1800's they were the same breed, blah, blah, blah,"

Since, we're talking about the hey days of the Stafford's, which was in the 70's and 80's, you might want to keep it relevant to the topic and refer to information or events from that era.

I am not trying to take a stab at you, I am merely trying to see your reasoning for making such a statement and any evidence to back it up.

In my previous post I gave you examples of some great APBT x Stafford crosses, but I still say it was a fluke as the majority of the crosses did nothing to make the Staffords a better pit dog. It probably made it worse.

On the rocks are probably correct when he says you wouldn't try to tell J.P Colby and Joe Mallen in the 30's that they had a different breed in their hands, but that belief had slowly changed by the 80's.

I have a letter that L.B Colby wrote in the 80's and it is pretty evident that even he considered some of the dogs from the 30's as equivalent to what they had in the US, but by the 80's, which was the hey days of the staffords and the era that Buk is refering to, they no longer can be considered the same, other than sharing physical abilities, so I cannot see how any cross breeding would with consistency improve the Staffords at all.

Even though the Colby dogs were said to originate in Ireland and therefor somehow hypothetically speaking share the genetic make up, I seriously doubt that even crossing into a Colby dog in the 80's would have yielded any greater results.

 

retired geezer,i got my pont backed up by someone i dont even know and proved i wasnt talking shit.its done now so leave it at that.i made a statment and got stick for it but it was understood by someone else and now you trying again to put me down and trying to make me wrong again by throwing bait out to come back for you again to try make me look stupid,then you try and correct me,make me look ignorant lol,make you look clever lol lol.its done just leave it.

 

and as for those letters,take a shit and wipe your arse with it lol.anyone can fake a letter.no matter what you are not gonna leave this.best thing to do is close this thread because this just gonna carry on and on