staffies and pitbull's history

I did some research and found >>>
The Evolutionary history of the wolf is not totaly clear, but many biologists believe that the wolf developed from primitive carnivores known as miacids. Miacids ranged from gopher-sized to dog-sized animals, and appeared in the Lower Tertiary about fifty two million years ago. Miacids in turn had evolved from Cretaceous insectivores. The direct descendants of miacids today are animals called viverrids, which include the genet of Africa.

Relatively late in the evolutionary history of miacids came the appearance of the first canid (Cynodictis), one of these was called the dawn-wolf, this creature had a long body and looked like a enlongated fox, it could live and climb in trees, it was also thought to possibly related to feline species. Some authorities believe that canids originated in North America and then spread to Asia and South America, while others ascribe that a small type of wolf crossed into siberia from alaska, where it eventually developed into the larger, present-day grey wolf. The grey wolf then migrated to North America, where it populated what is now Canada and the United States, except for the southeastern section of the latter country. that area was populated by the smaller red wolf(C. rufus). Still Others believe that the dog family originated in North America, migrated to Asia, and then returned
Important words > migrated to Asia, and then returned.

 

You love to copy and paste dont you, try a little harder and you will find modern scientists have discovered that dogs evolved from wolves in china! Next

 

Funny that comment, wasn't it americans that were bringin them over at the beginning to breed from? Colby being a fine example. So maybe the rest of the world wasn't crying out for them but well reknowned americans breeders seemed to be quite keen on them

 

Ah but during the 1980s etc those who moved from Staffords to Pitbulls did so because Pitbulls were bigger than most of the staffords and that's why they were beating them, so to stay in the game or have a chance of success they all had to go for pitbulls, on the more rare occasion where a big fit stafford was matched against a pitbull and won or gave a good fight against the pitbull they would say the pitbull wasn't the best etc.
But considering the dogs were supposed to be matched pound for pound there would need to have been smaller pitbulls matched against staffords and smaller pitbulls were a lot less common, so basically everyone involved knew if you were using a stafford it was likely going to have to give weight and hight to a pitbull which was going to result in a loss so the majority in the game moved to pitbulls.
I still recon a good game stafford matched against a pitbull of equal hight and weight and conditioning will give him all he wants and the fight could go either way depending on the dogs form on the day.

 

Have you ever heard of the word evolution? The dogs have improved vastly since those early dogs that were sent over, face it! Tell me which top dogmen who choose to use irish staffs over pitbulls, i guess it will be a long wait

 

You asked for some research then moan when you got your request lol, are you a female?? hehe

 

If the breeds are exactly the same then why are you claiming that the APBT is bigger? Colbys pincher was as big as any of gamedogs of today. Increasing the size of the dogs does not improve performance so why would the yanks do it?

 

Another point is that true working staffords cannot exactly be advertised for what they are, the sport is illegal and people who keep them must remain tight lipped the same way people who keep true working pitbulls r.

 

Typical reply, you's assume pitbulls only improved there while the rest of the world learned nothing about breeding methods or diet and conditioning, > They have improved everywhere over the years and although many people here favor the Stafford there are still a very many good pitbulls, the reason less are being exported or imported is because of the restrictions and bans plus each country have enough stock and lines to breed their own.
Anyone in Ireland or America looking for a pitbull would have no great problem finding a good one in their own country.

 

I agree with you on the size issue, but I saw pibulls in the 80s weighing an average of 55 - 65 pound and some monsters over 70 - 80 pounds, while a stafford was 35 - 55 pounds, drop 10 pounds off any of them after conditioning and you were still looking at a pitbull shredded to maybe 38 - 45 pound if he was a smallish dog? and a stafford 10 pounds lighter.
Originally many years ago there was little difference in them but the Americans did breed the bigger offspring with the biggest and in time the dogs produced were generally bigger than the stafford in the 80s, considering a working stafford of decent hight was 17 - 19 inch, while the average pitbull was 21 - 23.

 

Tell me the little differences you mention of, why would the yanks choose the bigger dogs to breed with? Please explain

 

Why? lol, Why do they build sky scrapers? Why do they build cars twice the size as ours?, Why do they serve portions of food 2 or 3 times as resturaunts here?
Why is there videos on youtube boasting of 135pound pitbulls? now am I wrong or is the dog in this video a hell of a lot more than 45 - 65 pounds? is that dog in America?
Answer any of the WHY questions above?
[video=youtube_share;l7wlCdX6eHI]http://youtu.be/l7wlCdX6eHI[/video]

 

Please show me some 135 pound gamedogs, i dont think copy and paste is going to work this time

 

i have a theory as to why the English dogs got smaller.
aside from a few gentry, the matching of dogs was a working mans "sport". most working folk lived in back to back terraces often cramped with many kids. smaller dogs were easier to house, feed and conceal as the "sport" became hole in the wall, held in pub cellars and similar places. in the US the "sport" was allowed to flourish , people had more space and large yards of dogs were not uncommon.now unless you had money in England, land for yards was not freely available.

 

What has size to do with anything, plenty of small APBTs, they got matched at Sbt weights, they ware match into each other in the early days (SBT -v-APBT).. and the percentage of staffs that won was real low, and most that seen this swapped to APBTs, there has been some famous small APBTs in Ireland, ranging from 28lbs - 38lbs, so what has size got to with it,..."Babyteeth" 28lbs...Ch."Culchie" 30lbs, Ch."Barrera" 38lbs, Ch."Scooby" 35lbs, ch."Bulla" 37lbs, Ch."Screech" 33lbs, ch."Raleigh" 29lbs, ch."Scateboard" 35lbs, ch."Lola" 36lbs, ch."Sue" 36lbs,ch."Flash" 37lbs, to name a few that ware all in the weight range of SBT..size has nothing to do with it..APBT, ware better ability, mouths, wind, and gamer

 

150 years ago or 50 years ago or even last week, when fights took place there was records, there's history in books and websites of many fights in many countries, when we read those records we are all making assumptions, we are ASSUMING whoever recorded the Names, Times, and Dates is telling the truth and that there were others there who could dispute the records if there was any mis-truth?
And it does matter where the parents originated as that's where the breed originated? unless of course you want to claim it as coming from the place it ended up instead of where it began??
How else would 40 million American's claim Irish ancestory if it didn't matter where their parents came from?
Of course you can recall dogs from America that did well in other countries and Can't recall any that did well in the USA that were imported "because it suits you" BUT ALL of the dogs in the USA decend from IMPORTED dogs, and allow for the fact the USA is a huge country compared to Ireland and England, if every household there and here owned 1 dog you's would have a lot more these days but it still doesent mean they come from there or a good one there is any better than a good one here.

 

That dog has to have some other breed mixed into it, it was bred to do weight pulling, its possibly 10 generations away from a game bred APBT...pure APBTs rarely (in a fit condition) go over 55lbs

 

Of course size matters, I'm suprised at you above all people saying "What has size to do with anything"
You named 12 Pitbulls that came in at Staff weight, out of how many? 100s?? was any of those you named ever matched against good quality staffords of equal size? if so what was the outcome?
I'm genuinely asking, not being a smart ass, because I'm curious to know if what i'd heard from men who were at it years ago was accurate, many of them said if a good stafford was evenly matched with a pitubull the staff often gave the pitbull all he wanted and more in some occasions.

 

This is a good answer, same could be said of the racing dogs, whippets ware first developed in similar areas..

 

But the staff usually lost, because they ware not as good, its you who mentioned size..they ware matched (staff -v-APBT) at a weight, and the staffs ware not as good, Iv never seen any staff that came close to the dogs I mentioned above