staffies and pitbull's history

so why not breed pit back to staffords? or is it a total loss ?

 

I don't know how to explain it any better than this... all modern SBT trace back to the show dogs...nobody has kept a strain just for working ...all trace back to the early show dogs of the 1930...no one kennel in uk has bred the SBT for gameness since after the beginning of showing of SBT...no line has been kept for gameness from the show dogs of the 1930 till now...there is no continuous game tested line from the early dog to now...if you don't grasp what Im saying , I can't explain any better.... if you think there is a continuous line I would love to see it

 

There aint no BS or drama queens here. My point is that there are people in this thread that has experience with both breeds, from working stock and who has worked them. If someone should know it would be them dont you think? Anybody who has worked them knows the difference. I know someone who keeps both breeds and works them and he has no problem telling you which one whos most suited for the real work. Hint, its not the SBT. And he has some of the most highly regarded and well bred staffords there is.
I myself have owned both breeds and dropped one for the other. From what Ive seen most SBTs are rough gameplugs. Most lack the air and physique. They do good against there own kind but in reality they come up short against the APBT.
Just stating my opinion from what Ive seen with my own eyes aswell as experienced.

 

HEY Ricky your head must be made of rock yawl keep banging it in the wall lol Well let me add my two penneth to the debate about KC staffords . Mny years ago in the late 70s when i got intrested in staffords i met Bill Hodgkinson of Betchgreen Kennels he had owned staffords many years and was seen as a legend in KC circles , i used to visit Bill regular and through him got to know Dann of Plymouth who at this time was buying dogs from Ireland . It was obvious from talking to Bill that he was a true stafford man , but he told me many times the stafford was ruined as a game breed and only rarely did a good one appeaer and these came from anywhere . Many years ago i also met a old man from the Darlaston area of Birmingham who had been around staffords all his life and knew Mallen and Boylan well and saw there dogs many times this old man was called BLASTER and the stories he could tell were amazing , he also told me the stafford had lost it many years ago and i was talking to him at the Mad Molly v Gully match and asked him what he thought of the dogs and he replied i could hold my dick in the fire longer lol . I dont know how old Blaster was when i met him in the early eighties but id say he was in his late seventies so he went back to the times when staffords were first reckognised and he told me that though some rolled there dogs and hunted badgers they DID NOT test there dogs like the boys round Birminham did in the seventies/eighties and even back then in the thirties/forties/fifties they were more intrested in rosettes and ribbons than gameness and that many non game dogs were bred from , if i remember correctly Blaster featured on the cover of Drabbles book "Of Pedigree Unknown" he was a very intresting man with a wealth of knowledge on the olden days when staffords were first recognised perhaps someone from the midlands remembers him ? I know he was very friendly with the owners of Joss and Johnson as thats were i met him when visiting them

 

Been reading thru this as i havnt been able to get on the site....some interesting reading about ebt blood....i remember three dogs that had ebt blood in them one made champion rsps ch pepsi her dam was half ebt.........there was a unofficial champion aswell bred from fwks ch ginger to a ebt bitch who was a 3xwinner....also a dog who ended up in ireland(cant remember its name) who lost one then was sold and won one who was ebt cross cur stopper bred pitbull......... so some may not like the use of ebt blood but in rare cases it dosnt really matter how the pitdog is bred it is still a pitdog....... just posted this info to show people still used ebt blood not that long ago.

 

I have alsso seen dogs with Bull terrier blood that were game and won matches howevor they are NOT gamebred and yes it does really matter if you introduce NON game blood to a family of gamedogs its a major step backwards and ruins the bloodline . No genuine person with the most limited understanding of gameness would think it correct to breed a bull terrier to anything other than a bull terrier, as for CUR STOPPER i saw the dog and he surely didnt need any bull terrier blood he was a good dog very game and im positive his owner would agree

 

I agree about ch cur stopper he was a excellent dog who could of ended up a grch if the outting against ch max had gone ahead would of been a close call tho as they were both good dogs....as for the ebt blood been bred into the dog down from cur stopper i never did it so couldnt comment why it was introduced.

 

ch pirate was another bull terrier cross gar ...he was said to be a good one but lost to ch klogger ... imo although they were good dogs not many went on to produce with having the bull blood in them ?

 

Was ch pirate a black and white dog with cropped ears.

 

The CH Pirate dog was a white dog with black markings the black dog with white markings and cropped ears was his litter brother Jim i saw both these dogs and also saw CH Cur Stopper who was a game dog

 

Thanx for that jt i remember seeing a dog with cropped ears that had something todo with pirate must of been jim....sonny was a game dog saw him a few times myself.

 

Is this the dog jim bro to pirate.....

 

Yes i saw the dog a number of times first time at GG place when he was a young dog

 

did GG breed the litter with pirate and jim in JT ? ..... GG must get alot of credit for alot of the top working staffords in this country as he either owned them or had something to do with them .

 

Michael.Caine.
Surprised no bull terrier fancier ain't done some research on those dogs carring that blood in the sporting circles,as there has been a fair few who proved themselves to be decent workers. Any credit shown on Stormer (for example) & most later mention his breeding record. Takes a little shine off the dog & other similar crosses.

 

Seormer was a good match dog as was Mc Carthys Spike and GRCH Bruno they are howevor in MY eyes end results , would i match one yes i would would i breed from one no i would not , if i had a game bitch stafford i would not breed it to anything that wasnt a pure stafford and if i owned a game Pitbull bitch i certainly wouldnt breed it to anything other than a pure Pitbull . Now others might to it differently and thats there choice but i can only speak for myself as to the CH Pirate and Jim dogs they were bred in Plymouth out of a fat English Bull bitch that was a pet out of MOs Gar dog . Now GG was a dealer but he would also match anyone but he made some stupid breedings such as CH Molly to a Bull Mastiff/Staff dog , CH Mitsi to Reno the 60lb Pitbull and CH Jess to a patterdale at one time most of the good Irish seaffs passed through his hands and while he had them if they come in heat but any dog would do , he was howevor a fair conditioner and would refuse noone

 

thanks jt ........

 

Icepick a few pages ago you told us forumfools you want to learn about the staffords. Me was always told of you wanna learn you have to listen and read. Don't think you wanna learn anything, looks like you want us to read the icepick bible.

 

I have owned and bred and competed with both staffords and Pitbulls and also a few crosses of the two breeds , and let me tell you the FACTS , a gamedog dont know if its a stafford or a Pitbull only the owner has this knowledge . I have seen staffords that were as game as any Pitbulls and have seen a number that were just as big a curs as some of the Pitbulls i saw quit , many of them were superbly bred Pitbulls but like the Staffords they still quit . If someone chooses to keep Staffords and breeds them true and for gameness , using only game tested stock then whats wrong with that ? Its the individuals choice what breeds he keeps and i know a number of Stafford owners that have tested there dogs for many years using only the gamest to breed from , they DONT think they can compete with Pitbulls but they know the dogs they have are game and gamebred . I myself DO NOT believe Staffords can compete with Pitbulls they simply dont have the breeding , howevor i know people that own staffords that are as game as any dog alive and thats all one can ask of a dog regardless of how its bred win lose or draw