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staffies and pitbull's history

Discussion in 'Staffordshire Bull Terriers' started by DiMaSaLaNg, Jun 28, 2006.

  1. tommy1985

    tommy1985 Big Dog

    Pitbull wasn't an official name for a specific dog back then, any dog fought in a pit was a pitbull regardless of how it looked
     
  2. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog

    I don't agree, look at all the old pics Colby's dogs, the Gas House dogs, Lightners, etc...
    I'd love to see staffords here that look the same as the dogs 150 years ago, but the fact is they don't

    I'm not sure what you mean by the last part of your post, I know where the dogs came form and went to, some were bought and developed by americans at the time, John P Colby was american, as were all his sons after him, they were one of the families that developed apbt's for over 100 years, that's why the dogs bred in America rightly carry the name APBT
     
  3. activeirish

    activeirish Big Dog

    you want to stop sniffing whatever it is buddy, the Pitbull is the most documented breed on the planet and you just came out with that comment??
    The Romans fed Christians to Lions in Rome before Jesus was born but we all know Lions came from Africa
     
  4. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog

    it takes 21 days to prepare a dog for import into Ireland
    I highly doubt there are any real apbt's breeders in the USA looking for staffords from Ireland or the U.K. to add to their breeding programs, and we know why
     
  5. jacko

    jacko CH Dog

    colby"s galtie looks all stafford and an awful lot of apbt can trace there lineage back to loyds pilot and paddy pit dogs from staffordshire England.
    for what its worth . lol
     
  6. Icepick

    Icepick Banned

    How do you know of the stamina of dogs 150 years ago? Assumptions... Where has the longest match taken place? Who bred those dogs? In the U.S., unless there are 3 hour dogs in other countries that I never heard about.
    This whole thing about where they were bred doesnt matter, because the parents were form somewhere else is crazy. If thats the case, why even call them Staffs? By that logic shouldnt they be called by their ancestors names?
    I've heard of plenty of good dogs making it in other countries, that came from the U.S., but I cant recall many (if any) that have done really well in the U.S. that were imported from other countries in the last few decades.
     
  7. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog

    lol activeirish, I don't need to sniff anything to have a friendly debate with you

    you seem like a nice guy, but please take some time to read my posts , I know very well how well documented the APBT is, I also know where the dogs originate from that were used to DEVELOP the breed, the APBT
    they came from Ireland and the U.K., no one country can claim the origin of the dogs behind the APBT
    BUT the USA has every right to claim the APBT as their breed, they developed it
     
  8. activeirish

    activeirish Big Dog

    Ahhh C'mon man, if Colby imported the majority of his dogs from here, and then wisely only bred from the ones producing the best results, all's he did was keep breeding them correctly and conserve the high standard for future generations, these dogs have been bred the same way here and there since their creation (not the show dogs) the game bred ones, different kennels of course have sprung up there and here, all doing the same thing, they tested their dogs, worked out which ones were best at doing the business, bred from them, held back pups or only sold to those in trust, kept records and then bred back into the same blood, the pattern hasn't changed, the improvements were made not only by selective breeding but also by better understanding of feeding and exercising and conditioning. if you breed dogs to bitches your going to get pups, how good or bad they are depends on how good the parents were so you choose wisely and keep it close. thats how it's done everywhere, so a good Pitbull is a good one and a band one is a bad one, but their all the decendant's of those dogs from England first bred in the 1800s.
     
  9. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog

    lol I'll agree with you on those two, but haow many do you really see around that look like Colby's Galtie ?
     
  10. tommy1985

    tommy1985 Big Dog

    Lost cause, might as well tell the japanese that america have now developed a new akita.. Lol
     
  11. jacko

    jacko CH Dog

  12. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog

    again here's where we fundamentally disagree, I don't believe that england or any country can claim the origin of these dogs, there are no written accounts to prove this for or against

    working apbt's outclass working sbt's, that's a simple fact
    there may be the exception to the rule, but what are the chances, one in a million maybe

    that's why working staffords are in decline, because apbt's outclass them, that is a simple fact
     
  13. activeirish

    activeirish Big Dog

    But thats my point, we all know the origin of the breed, we know it got there on boats with Irish & Scotts etc, from here, and I can't and wouldn't dissagree it became very popular there, but it's been very popular here for maybe over 60 years before the first one arrived there, and since then it's been bred here and there and has consistantly improved, better understanding of breeding, keeping it close, line breeding, in-breeding, and as i said in my last comment before this one, many of the improvements have come with better feeding, a better understanding of diet, conditioning.
    You's have to realise the breed didn't grind to a halt here once it became known there, and if we can accept it's true origin even with the bad blood regarding the history between Ireland and england in the past, then you's must do the same, God help us all but the best dog ever created and loved in Ireland and then all over the USA was created by the Brits, whaaa haaa blahh ahhhh, Tears and Snot, gulp, swallow, >> the Pitbull is English
     
  14. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog

  15. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog



    the breed developed over there because of numbers and strict breeding plans
    diet and conditioning only give a dog the energy and fitness needed to go for longer

    we're not gonna agree on this , that I can assure you
    so it's simpler to agree to disagree, as I don't want to keep repeating my views
     
  16. jacko

    jacko CH Dog

    apart from the cropped ears my pup is of similar type, and he"s as pure a stafford as you"l get,
     
  17. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog

    that's cool, I'm sure you appreciate what you have in your pup then, good for you
     
  18. activeirish

    activeirish Big Dog

    You need to visit Ireland, because as you're very aware dog fighting is illegal but we all know it goes on and you always hear whats going down through the grape vine, Irish staffords are making a good return and are now more favored than by many than the show dogs (except for the show people) the best fighting dog in Ireland was a battle cross, he beat everything, pure pits included and there's big Irish Staffords having success against pure bred pitbulls also, obviously no one is going to want to come forward with a video to prove such a thing but it's commonly known here.
    How can you say no country can claim them then say their an American breed?
    Also how can you explain all the famous artist prints of Pitbulls in the pit killing rats, fighting eachother, all of which were painted and signed by the artists at the time, including the dogs names? and obviously in England with men in top hats etc? then of course explain how James Hinks used the Bulldog and White English Terrier to create the White Bullterrier which was given the title Bullterrier even though the Stafford (Pitbull) was the older of the 2 breeds but not recognised by the kennel club at that time? (in england) all many years before the breed was heard of anywhere else in the world?
     
  19. Dusty Road

    Dusty Road Top Dog

    your living in a fantasy if you think Irish staff can compete with APBTs...can u name one that has beaten a APBT in the past 20 years
     
  20. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog

    active irish, I am Irish, I've lived here all my life lol

    as stated please read my posts properl please

    I have stated that these dogs were common throughout Ireland and the U.K.
    We do not know if the originated solely in Ireland or the U.K., the ancestors of the APBT that is

    we do know that these dogs of "TYPE" lived throughout the U.K. and Ireland before the 1700's,
    so neither Ireland nor England can claim that the ancestors of the APBT originated EXCLUSIVELY in their country

    the APBT was developed into the breed it is today in America for over 100 years, seperate to the dogs we kept here in the isles, that is why they can rightly claim the APBT as their breed
     

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