Schutzhund

o and dogs arent trained to target the sleeve thats a sleeve happy dog and u gotta break em of that. they are after the arm underneath not the sleeve.

 

(: .

 

Are these dogs being trained for the same thing?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO1UfEpmTDM"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO1UfEpmTDM[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14EY0peGwME"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14EY0peGwME[/ame]

 

I've seen videos of dogs weight pulling, using the spring pole, running the mill or working hogs have equally bad ass music.

I'll be sure to put Lady Gaga on my dog's bite work video, just for you.

 

I have a few friends that are Schutzhund/IPO/Ring trainers and I participate in a few dogsport boards. I also trained a few of my dogs (not bulldogs) for protection work in the past. I will, very soon, start training my amstaff in IPO as well. I see there are some confusion here about the sport:
- Sch didn´t start as a sport. It was developed as a "selection tool" to evaluate the dogs (GSD) abilities (physical, adestrability, drives, etc..) in a variety of tasks (obedience, traking and protection). The best dogs were used as producers. After a while it also became a sport;
- training a dog in Sch, if done right, doesn´t change at all the dog´s agressiveness towards humans. The fact that if you tell a trained dog to attack a person and it does, does not make that dog HA. It just means it´s a well protection trained dog. A HA dog is one that shows aggression towards humans for no reason (unpredictable). The ones I have trained didn´t change a bit, were super social, 100% trust, with the bonus of having a greater bond and taking comands;
- %wise the best breed for the sport is the Belgian Malinois, which had the Belgian Ring as the selection method. Like the APBT, is not a dog for everyone. The working GSD, with the Schutzhund is a close second imo;
- even the ones of you that are against it for the APBT, I would sugest you try to watch it at least once in your life. Specialy the Belgian Ring;
- gameness (lol): last years´ worlds there was a Malinois that somehow broke his front leg. He kept going after the decoy for a good 5 minutes until his handler realized what was going on and pulled him off the competition. These dogs have prey, defense and fight drives off the roof, and is really amazing to watch they work;
- the tracking part of the Sch routine is probably the one that nobody likes to watch. It´s very slow paced, happens usually VERY early in the morning and it simply doesn´t have the "show" of the protection section. The first time I watched one, I was blown away. I wouldn´t imagine a dog could do that, with that level of precision;
- I respect everyone´s opinion, but I believe that getting bulldogs in the protection sports, would acctually do a lot of good for the breed´s image. It would be an oportunity to show to the public that these dogs are not uncontrolable beasts that bite people out of nowhere. It would be a good oportunity to get people that are affraid of the breed closer to them. And best of all, would be a great way to tell the media to fuck off! That they don´t know shit about bulldogs!
Sorry for the long post, specially if you don´t really care about what I said...lol...

 

I'm not tough at all. But I use Eminem and Lil' Wayne and my bf's dj mixes. haha

 

Yup this is how I see it. Most Sch titled dogs wouldn't know how to protect their owner if a real issue came up because there would not be a sleeve involved. Sch does not necessarily mean the dog is a protection work trained dog as well, it is a sport BUT that does not mean the average human being understands that point. I understand the APBT can go into Sch and kick the ass of every dog there because hey, that is what our breed does - it sees a task and it gets it done - I just think the general public does not need any more image of this breed biting folks, even if it in a controlled environment. Just pick a breed that was bred to do this and leave it at that. Unfortunately the only way it is "safe" for this breed to be talked about to the public now a days is in gentle fluffy stories.

 

Personally in my own life, I own protection breeds for protection leave it at that. Trust me I am not talking poorly of protection training or work, I love it - have a family member who used to train protection and obedience Dobermans. She produced some amazing intense dogs.

 

Who was your friend if you don't mind me asking?

 

A bulldog in protection work does more than have a dog wanna bite humans. Infact most protection dogs don't even be human aggressive, they are performing a job and having fun. They know what the sleeve is and understand this for fun.. I had 2 and even if I had them back you up the next second you could be petting them. They also are no longer nuisance in show rings or around others.. One of greatest dogmen Oz always trained his and his hounds are known for computer like intelligence.. Folks gone continue to get these hounds we need them to show them in positive light.. Begote they get to Sch they got plenty of obedience training so at the least their hounds will have something instead of being backyard mongrels raging at anything moving..

 

Think police dog, or even catch dog... they both go in catch hold and stay in hold until told to release...

 

Think of it like this what is the point of teaching a dog to do this and not use them for their trained purpose? If I was going to go this deep into training that a dog will be used as protection in my house or where ever it meant to be used in. Pointless. Everyone keeps saying it bites the sleeve not the human but what is the point of having a dog trained in this sport when it sleeve bites only? Contradicting arugement to the true purpose of the sport, the sport is for human protection not biting a sleeve. Never seen a sleeve break into a house or threaten a human life. If I was in this sport the dog better grab whatever is available but it is funny because the dogs that are actually being sold for profit and true protection work by real deal people are definitely not terriers of any sort but protection breeds. Why people defend this is beyond me because you are not only putting the APBT on blast but you give the idea of this to the public that pit bulls bite and then the idiots who don't understand APBT and look to you wankers like this something to be proud because isn't. If I was a Schutzhund trainer not in it for money but for the sport like a true dogger, I would tell you to take your APBT home and come back with a true protection breed because there is so many to choose from that can perform the job better than a APBT. Positive light LOL, there is no positive in seeing a APBT take hold on a human or even a sleeve only a step back in the wrong direction, about as positive as taking my bulldog to PET SMART to pick out a treat; that would float like a lead balloon. Positive light for these dogs should be in your home or back yard and letting them enjoy life out of the spot light, nobody needs any more positive light for these dogs, they need to be kept in the lives of the people who love the breed for what is and that is being an APBT! No the dogs shouldn't be on Racheal Ray, no Vick's dogs shouldn't be on a wine bottle, no the dogs shouldn't be kept as a family pet of choice (even my kids understand this, our dogs are not pets they are bulldogs nothing more or less and my kids love the breed), no these dogs should be on rap cd or videos, no these dogs shouldn't be in public at all NOT THEIR PURPOSE IN LIFE!

 

I do believe there was a chapter on this in one of R. Stratton's old books... y'all correct me if I'm wrong. Y'all tellin me if y'all was being attacked while hand walkin one of your hounds your dog would just watch you get pummelled? Cause that's not what I know of the APBT. So if it's going to try and help it's friend and master shouldn't it know the best way to go about it?

 

So much for the saying that a bulldog can do any job any other dog can and then whip the other dog, huh?

 

(Sarcastic) They should be locked in a closet not seeing the light of day until time to take them out take them to the woods to hunt then put back in the closet after the hunt... yep... that's their ONLY purpose in life... to hunt... Even though in the olden days huntin was only their part time job. Now don't get me wrong I'm a purist, but damn, y'all takin it to the extreme and most probably never been in the woods in your lives.

 

obviously as stated protection(biting the sleeve) is not the only aspect of the sport.i dont do sch but im not going to bash someone 4 using their dog in the positive way that they see fit.it irritates me when a dogger tells someone they wrong 4 using they dogs 4 something else other than [] work.i say STFU and let them do they thing a rep the breed and show the world how disciplined these hounds can be.and be thankfull they taking some of the attention off the dogs doing they original work cause i dont hear about no sch dogs attacking kids and making the news the same as most box dogs.those of u who think the dogs only belong in the pit then what is the general public supposed to think every time they see one(or paraphernalia) if they dont know they good 4 other things. and we arguing over this like we enemies and we shouold be friends cause we all obviously love apbt and want to see them working.to not want someone else to used their dogs in the way they see fit is akin to trying to take away someone else freedom of speech and will only lead to yours being taking away. catch my drift

 

I think any breed should be used at Schutzhund. It's a sport, a game. Only personal protection breeds should be used for PP. Schutzhund is not PP. As for "the general public shouldn't see an APBT bite a person even if it's on a sleeve" Well, guess what? Not many "general public" attend Schutzhund trials.