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proper staffs

Discussion in 'Staffordshire Bull Terriers' started by jacko, Nov 26, 2010.

  1. sunbeam

    sunbeam CH Dog

    my thought is, they never seem to match the very best pit bulls into tosas, just the average mutt.i would say a dog like ch alligator,ch butcher boy , gr ch mayday or similar top of the tree big bulldogs would be hard for them to whoop.i have seen plenty of pit bulls that were poor pit dogs but to know the truth you would need to see best v best imo.
  2. damon

    damon Banned

    In japan they match good dogs against each other. Dogs like mayday are few and far between I suspect
  3. jonnim

    jonnim Big Dog

    damon apart from books,videos and google can i ask where your info comes from plz ?
  4. damon

    damon Banned

    Off of few dogmen in japan. I dont know them personally, why you ask?
  5. jonnim

    jonnim Big Dog

    just wondered damon thats all,i didnt realise they came in a light weight version,for want of a better word
  6. damon

    damon Banned

    I think in Korea theirs a featherweight division aswell
  7. Elmo

    Elmo Big Dog

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Interview with Mr. Takashi Hirose[/FONT] An interview conducted by Mr. H. Perozo with the reputable Mr. Takashi Hirose at the Takurahama Hotel. Mr. Hirose is President of the Tosa Fighting Center in Kochi, Japan. September 2003.

    How did your father first come in contact with the Tosa-Ken?
    Alter WWII, Takashi’s grandmother used the Tosa as a ranch dog, to guard the cows from thieves which were common because of lack of food alter the war. Mr. Maseru Hirose, Takashi’s father, was raised in a Tosa environment without recognizing the greatness of this animal until adulthood, when he showed interest in the traditional sport of dog fighting. Although Tosa’s have been around since feudal times, it was not until forty years ago, that Mr. Masaru Hirose founded of what is known today as the Tosa Dog Fighting Center, once a dog fighting arena, now a tourist museum dedicated to the preservation of Japanese culture. At this center you can experience all the traditions of the Japanese people, including that of their dedication to the Tosa breed, Kochi traditional dances, replicas and original dog houses, trophies and other significant artifacts related to the Tosa.

    What is a Tosa combat like?
    They struggle, bite and draw themselves up to their extreme height. One dog is defeated in the fight, when it gives shriek or runs away. They have ranks e.g Yokozuna, Ozeki or Maegashira as well as Ozumo, in accordance to their fighting results.

    Can you describe an unforgettable experience with the Tosa breed?
    I definitely have a story to tell you. This is something that happened to me during my childhood and it changed my life forever. This one time, the governor of Kochi City, Japan, was visiting the Tosa Fighting Center and my father, Mr. Masuru Hirose wanted to make a good impression by celebrating for the governor a great dog fight. He took Takasi Hirose, Jr. dog, thinking to make the fight emotional and exciting. Unfortunately the results were tragic. Hirose Jr.’s dog was fatally wounded.
    In relating his story, Hirose, Jr. explains that he is an only child. With no brothers or sisters, the dog became his inseparable companion. On that fatal day, Hirose had said goodbye to his dog, and left happily to school not knowing that he would never see him again. When he returned from school, he looked for his dog, but he was no where to be found. Upon questioning the servants, he was informed that his dog had died in combat earlier that day. For many years he lived in pain and agony over his dog. He would not speak of dogs, dog fights or the likes. When he graduated from college he removed himself totally from the dog environment.
    Hirose: I’ve never told anyone that story, let alone a stranger from a foreign land! I consider this to be quite personal, he said, with tears in his eyes.

    How have your experiences with dog shows been?
    First, let me tell you about some unsavory experiences, right here in Japan, my country. I took three of my best Tosa’s to a Japanese Kennel Club show in Tokyo. I wanted the Japanese people to have appositive image of this dog and know it as a docile, cal well-tempered animal. It had been more than 26 years since I last entered a JKC show. There are a lot of influential people in the north side of Japan that don’t wish for others to see the positive, humble side of the Tosa. They are afraid that if the breed is perceived as other than a fighting breed, that another breed will replace it at the shows. These influential people complained to the JKC and demanded that the breed be bared from participating in the show. Shortly after this, Mr. Hirose received a notice informing him that for security reasons, his dogs would not be allowed to compete in the shows. This was a very disappointing because Hirose knows the Tosa as marvelous family oriented animal. But, due to the quantity of high stake investors in this breed, who constantly fight to protect its reputation as a fighting dog, these dogs will be shown only as fighting dogs and it is quite difficult to find it registered with a pedigree belonging to any other club.

    Can you describe the temperament of the dog?
    The Tosa line belonging to my father, produces dogs that are loyal to the family, calm, extremely intelligent, quiet and protector of children. Although there have been rumors saying that a Tosa has bitten an owner or a family member, after thorough investigation these incidences have been considered unfounded. There are many other dogs in Japan that are used for fighting, that are aggressive enough to bite an owner or a stranger, but not the Tosa.

    What can you tell me about the two varieties in size and color of today’s Tosa?
    Mr Takashi Hirose: In our gallery of Photo Archives at the Tosa Fighting Center we have a photograph of the original small-sized Tosa used for combat, showing one of the various colors of the breed.

    The traditional Tosa breeding in Kochi City does not limit the choice in color; they appreciate a variety of color. This is contrary to the breeding requirements of the Japan Kennel Club (JKC) and the Federation Cinologica Internation (FCI). These organizations require one color (red) as defined by the Standards. No other color is acceptable. My father who had an ample vision of the future of the Tosa, not as an ordinary fighting dog, but as a dog to compete in dog shows, favored the color red because this was the color designated acceptable by the JKC and the FCI. However, the Japanese know and like the Tosa and are quite comfortable accepting other colors of the breed. Examples of these can be found at the Tosa Fighting Center Museum.

    Well, my father had a lot of concerns about this extraordinary breed and in his dreams he saw the Tosa as a superior animal that, by the way, has become a national treasure and has represented Japan in many international competitions. That is why my father began breeding larger Tosas, from about 150 to 250 pounds, big boned, large head, good tempered, plenty of wrinkles, all according to the standards imposed by the JKC and the FCI.
    As with any project, opposition arose against changing or modifying the traditional size of the Tosa, smaller, more resilient in a lengthy fight, more agile in motion. However, my father prevailed and many followers committed themselves to breed larger sized Tosas. Unfortunately, my father’s illness, his efforts diminished and interest in continuing his work suffered. Six years ago the breed was considered extinct, although they still exist. There is a great demand for this large type Tosa, but it is difficult to find a large show quality Tosa. You have been given the privilege to see a Tosa Tournament. You have seen many matches, but none with the quality of Tosas you’ve seen here. Again I say privileged because not many Japanese know this breed or been able to witness a tournament.
    This is the true reality of the different sizes of the Tosa. The original that meets al the expectations of a fight and adjust to the original version and the larger version with the expectation of being a show dog, calm, intelligent and in compliance with the standards set by the JKC and CFI.
    The same problem occurred with the Akuita. The Japanese version is a medium sized, working dog, hunter of wild boar, while the imported European and American versions are larger, color and size in compliance with dog show and/or mascot standards. His is why we have complained and pressured the JKC into defining the difference. The JKC solved the problem by adding “Japanese” to the name, that way differentiating between the two. So now, there is the Japanese Akita and the Imported Akita.

    PS: The information you are reading on our educational web is extra special. It is the first time that a Tosa breeder has been interviewed for public information purposes. We bring you this interview in a sincere effort to provide the very best information, straight from the breeder’s point of view.
    Many people are obsessed with obtaining this type of dog, heavy weight size, but if you look the dogs shown in other websites, you can see that most of the dogs reach only about 150 pounds. I haven’t seen one yet to weigh 200 pounds. The large Tosa has been in extinction for six years, finding one is close to impossible, even in Japan. Today the most common Tosa weighs from 100 to 140 pounds.

    Source: Shaku1
  8. damon

    damon Banned

    Ive got quite a few pics of very good tosas but I'm no good with computers dont know how to do it and how long it takes
  9. cromsboss

    cromsboss Big Dog

    I'm intrigued, where could I buy this book, is it available for sale, or is it in a library in Dublin ?

    any info would be really appreciated, thanks

    sorry for hijacking the topic
    I'm enjoying reading the posts , very interesting
  10. NewSchoolDogMan

    NewSchoolDogMan Top Dog

    A fool eh, those very same fools have left those matches with a nice chunk of change in their pockets, and their bets were on the Tosa.
  11. NewSchoolDogMan

    NewSchoolDogMan Top Dog

    They come in 3 weight divisions, light,mid,and heavy.
  12. AxeMan

    AxeMan Pup

    I said at the same weight. I have no interest in big dog vs little dog BS. A true connoisseur isn't interested in anything but the purest form of combat at the highest level, and that's pit bull terrier vs pit bull terrier- conditioned and at the same weight. anything else is amateurish. JMO
  13. NewSchoolDogMan

    NewSchoolDogMan Top Dog

    Everything else is amataurish eh? So has every match between apbts been at the same weights? Had their not been matches in apbt gamedog history where one dog had 2-3, and even 6+ pounds more than their opponent? Are those matches tainted, and should we criticize those dogmen? Most matches amongst light weight Tosas and apbts aren't much different, and some are exactly the same weight. The only difference is that one is a tosa and one is an apbt, and in those matches, the tosa has bested the apbt numerous times, and of course vice versa. An apbt isn't unbeatable, and has fallen towards other breeds at the same weight. You do realize what the apbt was bred for, right? The apbt wasn't bred to be pretty, wasn't bred SPECIFICALLY for ability, wasn't bred to be dog aggressive, etc. The apbt was bred for GAMENESS, and consequently, to win matches. They were not bred to be unbeatable, and even dogs that are game has, and will in the future, lose.
  14. AxeMan

    AxeMan Pup

    Like I said, Anything other than pit bull terriers at the same weight is not at the highest level of competition. It's pretty straight forward. and yes, Any win over a smaller opponent is tainted by the size difference; regardless of breed/s. I don't need any lessons, thanks anyway
  15. AxeMan

    AxeMan Pup

    NewSchool, I'm curious what breed of dog you own. Obviously you don't have an apbt or you'd know better. If you had any real experience with a real bulldog, you'd instantly forget everyhing you ever thought you knew about tosas and sharpeis. ;). You seem like you enjoy dogs- you should spend less time as a third-hand wannabe dog expert and more time gaining first-hand experience. You need help finding a bulldog!?
  16. AxeMan

    AxeMan Pup

    who cares about what you read that somebody else heard about some dogs on the other side of the world.

    Well, It's nice outside today and I've got real-live dogs to work that I actually own. Maybe you'll stay in and read some interesting stories about tosas on the computer!?!
  17. NewSchoolDogMan

    NewSchoolDogMan Top Dog

    So mayday v cody, chinaman vs ch. ceasar, bullyson v benny bob, etc. those matches are considered amateurish and insignifigant? Damn son, you got a pretty big ego on you.
  18. NewSchoolDogMan

    NewSchoolDogMan Top Dog

    LMAO, so you've got dogs and you work them eh? Ok, check your PM ;)
  19. AxeMan

    AxeMan Pup

    there you go again mouthing off about dogs that are long gone and owned/campaigned by people you've never met.
  20. AxeMan

    AxeMan Pup

    Just checked, and I didn't receive shit

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