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Pedigree Infatuation.

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by AGK, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    What is it about a dogs pedigree that fascinates people so much? Is it because people base their dogs worth on the accomplishments of their dogs ancestors? Is it because they feel/hope their dog will have a higher percentage of being good because it is down from Grand Champion So & So? A pedigree IS important to a certain extent. But far more important is the quality of the actual dog in question. If the dog is below average then it makes no difference if the dog is off Grand Champion So & So or the junkyard dog down the street. In the hands of a knowledgeable breeder a pedigree can be a useful tool to help predict the quality of future breedings. But in the hands of the majority of dog owners, a pedigree is basically useless. It*s merely a piece of paper or a link to pedsonline that these people can use to “show off” their sub-par/unaccomplished dogs. How many people do you see posting their dogs pedigrees for basically no reason? How many people do you see asking “How*s that dog bred?” rather than “Who bred that dog”?, “How good is that dog?”, or “What*s that dogs strengths and weaknesses?” People justify breeding subpar dogs based on their pedigrees because So & So was cold but he produced Grand Champion So & So II.

    This is the exception, not the rule. This is a low percentage breeding practice. I urge everyone to worry LESS about pedigrees and MORE about the actual quality of the dogs they are working with. Everyone is a dog breeder these days. They sell pups with pretty and not so pretty pedigrees to people who are buying them because of the names on the pedigrees. They have very little first-hand knowledge of the actual dogs in the pedigrees. They hear Grand Champion So & So was this and that, but never saw him or any of his offspring. They read some things online or in a magazine about this dog and now they are an expert. This endless cycle is the reason for the over-population of our breed and so many average to below average dogs. It takes years and years of working with the same genetic pool to really learn about your dogs and to be able to accurately predict the quality of their offspring. Stop breeding pedigrees and start breeding strengths and weaknesses. If you are going to buy a dog, forget about the pedigrees and worry more about WHO you are buying your dogs from. Bill Reynolds taught me early on “It*s not how the dog is bred. It*s who bred them and why.” We all need to let that sink in…


    Courtesy of SDN
     
    ShakaZ likes this.
  2. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    They say you can tell where a person is headed by the company they keep as an extintion of that I say if you want bulldogs breed bulldogs. If you want to buy a bulldog buy it from someone doggin wit bulldogs. If you want papers get a job cause the only papers that really matter r green
     
  3. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    Important read all sales for dogs over the net is good looking paper, catchy websites with music and geat story from the breeder. SOLD for 1800 bucks dont worry thats shipping and vet fees included
     
  4. bluedoglover

    bluedoglover Top Dog

    you watch him in action first. ask for the ped later...
     
  5. frogs

    frogs Big Dog

    Other than the obvious reasons for wanting/needing to know... History.
     
  6. Vicki

    Vicki Administrator Staff Member

    Guilty as charged. I wanted a dog from the Queen. And I sure do love my pretty pedigrees, LOL!
     
  7. TROTLINE

    TROTLINE Top Dog

    I have two families of dogs line bread from four I've been keeping over 40 yrs. Peds. are important to me because when I bring in fresh blood I want them to be from the basic same foundation. I want to know what I'm introducing is as free from genetic defects as possible! Game health, and A lineage of good to great dogs. I have bread off my yard to great dogs similar to mine and put down 5 out of 6,except A gyp healthy and game! The rest I put down SOME might have been worth A cheap match, but I'm not looking for those! Had people who I was acquainted with try and buy them if I get A great one he/she is used within my group, if I get one that is excellent, I put him or her in hands that can do the best with it! I just don't know how anybody can go on line and buy A puppy much less A match dog!!! Why the HELL A dogman would sell A well bread GOOD combat dog I'll never understand!!! Every single one I have , I have got from friends. I do understand somebody selling A good dog because of extenuating circumstances (family, emergency) no one could ever say never!! If your into having good dogs for the long haul, you really need to know what A good dog is, what you like and who has it, then you have to find A way of getting one! All my years it's never been MY dog it's been OUR dog, I have been lucky making friends in the early years, even now I'm a lot older, a lot of those people are gone, I was the youngest one I ran with. Through them I meet others, that were younger. If you want to be competitive you need some deep pockets, or solid friends that have the same interest's! Especially since things are a lot tougher now. Another thing there arnt as many people keeping line bread families. I realize there are some excellent combat dogs out there, 90% of the time there from two or three families that have been crossed. The probumn is keeping them comming, it's A whole lot of work in between the great ones! More so the reason to form A group just starting out! I know there are alot of people on this forum that have established what they have and what they like. Kinda wrote this for the ones just starting out! You need to research bloodlines, and do A whole lot of watching suround yourself with people you can learn from let them know your trust worthy and maybe you'll get there! Sorry for the rambeling the last couple months is the first time for me discussing dogs on line! Always be looking and thinking!
     
  8. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    I'm guilty to. I feel the complete package also includes a pretty ped. I guess I never understood what one actually means by pretty pedigree. If you have working dogs from working dogs then the pedigree is always pretty.......
     
  9. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    Sometimes it is important for the pretty pedigree for the pretty dog to be made by the person selling the dog. Pretty papers are pretty awesome then.


    When the pretty part of the papers are two generations back, twice removed from the guy that created the family and made the family then that becomes the slippery slope.


    I like papers as much as the next guy. And to add onto Trotline's post it can be an important tool in adding something new. For me when I do that I know the people and the dogs involved moreso than seeing the pretty papers.


    And as far as the papers are concerned themselves, it is the coloring. You could take a six generation of dogs who have never did anything, as well as bred and sold by the same guy who never did anything...change four or five of the dogs from being printed in black to red and/or blue. The value automatically increases with the color of ink chosen. That part has always amazed me.


    S
     
  10. FrankDublin

    FrankDublin CH Dog

    if you know what your looking at the pedigree can be very important it sometimes can give you the winning recipie but with so many people hanging papers on dogs these days best to stick with the performance and breeder method
     
  11. ELIAS'PISTOLA

    ELIAS'PISTOLA CH Dog

    Good read Trotline and Slim...
     
  12. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    Very few sets of papers are truly accurate.


    Even if a person bred every dog in a 6 generation pedigree, what about 7th or 8th?


    The only way to proof a set of papers is with the dog on line 1. What the father and mother did or did not do really has no bearing on the dog on line #1.


    Before I get bombarded. My thought process is cold dogs throw cold dogs, curs and winners. Winners throw cold dogs, curs and winners. Curs throw cold dog, curs and winners.


    The recipe is to grade the dog on line #1 and move forward. Grade the next dog that is line #1. Once you have graded enough dogs on line #1 to fill up the six generation pedigree then the pedigree becomes a tool for you to use, and only you to use.


    If I take my Mims female out there and try to out guess Mr. Mims' 60 years in the dogs I am only fooling myself. Same with Patrick. Same with Beudreaux. etc.etc.


    The dog on line #1 has to be graded in order to build the pedigree. In turn once the pedigree has been built, then the dog on line #1 may not have to already met the grade based on the fact how he is bred and he is doing what the family did in a consistent fashion.


    The problem usually arrives when someone buys the pretty papered dogs, has no idea how to grade the dog on line #1 (or chooses not to grade) and then proceeds to fill up another six generations. Slippery slope.


    S
     
    mccoypitbulls likes this.
  13. FrankDublin

    FrankDublin CH Dog

    Good point slim12 I agree with that so then the culling process plays in
     
  14. Jacob

    Jacob Top Dog

    Its starting to look more and more exactly like the bible its good guide but aint the truth and depending which bible it is its nothing but a bunch writing some people need to read to make themselves feel better(me). Meanwhile you think you got the truth you got (Jimmy Swagart).
     
  15. TROTLINE

    TROTLINE Top Dog

     
  16. mccoypitbulls

    mccoypitbulls Underdog

    I seen one the other day that like a pack of starburst.the titles and names were moving in their section banner style. That was pretty as it gets.
    I like the pedigree as a tool for a breeder..but you have to know what you have and what the papers say you have also. Great read y'all.cheers!
     
  17. Thunder98

    Thunder98 Big Dog

    Yeah slim12 nice read, especially the part about your thought process, & grading the dog on line #1. Be honest and don't cheat yourself while grading.
     
  18. postmandan

    postmandan Big Dog

    honestly any more I have to use the pedigree to remember how and when I had a dog hahaha and his before and after, enough years and I promice you you will start to forget
     
  19. redwar

    redwar Big Dog

    Good stuff SLim12 and Trot..
     
  20. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    Very true. I can't remember the age of half the dogs out there. That is 4 or 5. That one is 2 1/2 or 3. Etc. Etc. The pedigrees I remember (for now, LOL). If someone really wanted to know an exact age I would have to refer to the papers.


    The dogs from yesteryear as well. I have to verify when I had a dog in what time frame. So the papers have some value. LOL.


    S




     

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