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nutrition when conditioning

Discussion in 'Health & Nutrition' started by CesarT, Jul 19, 2016.

  1. CesarT

    CesarT Pup

    Slim your post cut off when you quoted me.
  2. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I was saying when using flaxseed oil, or anything plant derived with the dogs, the raw green tripe is always a plus. The ruminant stomached animals are designed to break down plant matter, it aids the dogs ability to assimilate.

  3. CrazyHorse

    CrazyHorse Big Dog

    Flaxseed oil which is plant based doesn't have a problem being digested as long as there are no proceesed foods being fed and actually aids the digestive system.
  4. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Digested, yes. Assimilated, not so much.
    I'm not a science guy at all. If flaxseed oil is working then by all means it is working.
    The researchers and scientists say not so much.
    I'm on the train of thought if a person is winning with 'corn flakes and cabbage' then by all means one should be using 'corn flakes and cabbage'
    oldguy likes this.
  5. CrazyHorse

    CrazyHorse Big Dog

    Yes, flaxseed oil aids in digestion which is critical for nutrient absorption and is an excellent unsaturated energy source. My food keep is about maximizing nutrient absorption and meal timing.
  6. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I think everyone's feed keep should be about nutrient absorption and meal timing.

    The flaxseed oil is a great supplement for humans so the research says, not so much for the dogs.

    I read the science/research material and use what I think works. I then proof it by trial and error. I use to use flaxseed oil, rice bran oil and wheat germ oil (plant derived). Based on articles and research such as "Rendering Sense into Fat" and others by noted veterinarians (who are also widely known as sled doggers) I dropped those and replaced them with other fats and oils. Mostly oils from things that at one time walked or swam.

    What I found, and this is on bulldogs in the piedmont section of North Carolina, as geographical location, temperature and humidity is a part of the bigger picture, is that the dogs when worked really hard can use a lot of fats and oils. Even in the non-arctic climates like where most of the sled studies are performed.

    I increased the fat content of the daily meals gradually. As I increased the chicken/beef fats the dogs performed better today and had better recovery between work days. There were also improvements between sets on an increased fat in their diet. As I moved their fats up percentage wise basic math said other stuff had to go. First to go was the carb portion of the diet. For every percent of carbs removed it was replaced with chicken or beef fat. In time brown rice was the only thing left that came from the ground. The meals consisted of 50%protein/40%fat/10% brown rice. If it is a dog that really needs a lot of food to maintain weight that 10% of rice is replaced with dry kibble.

    The first two supplements I reach for is dessicated liver and raw beef tripe which has to be one of the nastiest and worst smelling things a person would feed a dog. I have used the can versions but I prefer the 10lb. chubs/tubes. When using the raw chub version of beef tripe I can see where the plant derived oils could be used as it has the enzymes needed to break down plant matter/plant oils. Once broken down they then would be helpful to the dog.

    My choice in not using them is that I am all about efficiency. I do not feed my dog something that needs something else to break it down in order for it to be viable.

    This is for the dog that is in keep and is giving just about everything he has every day he comes off the chain. He is willing to give it all but I leave just enough gas in the tank so we can do it again tomorrow.

    And again, it is all about opinion and what one feels works for them. If we all did things the exact same way every Saturday night would end up in a draw. Boring.

    palooka, oldguy, corvettedex and 5 others like this.
  7. italianpit

    italianpit Big Dog

    This is what i feed to my dogs to put them in condition.
    I usually use dry food but a grain free type, a ptotein supplememt but two time at week rice with chiken and carrot and It seem to work for me
  8. slowstarter

    slowstarter Big Dog

    One of the best threads on the board........ ever. That Mayfield one is another good one.
  9. wicked13

    wicked13 Top Dog

    Moringa powder has benifits
  10. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    What you think about Don ?
    rswan88 likes this.
  11. slowstarter

    slowstarter Big Dog

    Putting the dog on a 100ft rope everyday in the same spot to empty out has saved me more time than I could have ever imagined.
    slim12 and bamaman like this.
  12. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I used a long cable run once for the empty out. I would move him from the chain to the cable run and he would do his business.

    I think a 100ft rope would be even better, less constrictive.

    I think Mr. Mayfield was a true competitor. I think he put a lot of truths out there and I think he also shot a few curves here and there. Nothing god awful, but if a competitive winner has an edge seldom will he give it up. He may give half to 3/4 and leave out some key factors or he may embellish a certain part in the idea of maintaining his edge.

    In his day he was a top conditioner. He opened some doors and shed some light and the conditioning of these dogs advanced. Others then used what he put out, walked thru those doors and things got even better.

    An innovator who spurred conditioning to new levels.

    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
    corvettedex, rswan88 and bamaman like this.
  13. slowstarter

    slowstarter Big Dog

    For his day I can say he was top flight. I cannot and will not ever condition a dog for a whole shift like he did......... If he did.
    I think now with all the different methods that are out some of his stuff is outdated but relevant. But then again if he was 25 in 2005 he would be light years ahead of the world in 2018. I think the last 5 days can make or break you and it has broke me, that's why he is so detailed in his last week. I think drying out has changed a little....... but the concept is the same. The blood count has changed and developed where you can get around a vet......... and salt....... Lmao
    The food intake has gotten better but he knew it was deeper than kellogg's and kibble from the get go.
    You take a little from everyone but by far the rope helped me the most. It sucks fighting the dark and your trying to get one to empty and your 1 hour in and 3 miles from the house and that bastard still hasn't pooped and you done worked 8 hours and still got a few hours to go. The rope is slick. I can take one off the chain, put him on the rope for 5 minutes until empty, then throw him on the mill and go get a different one and put him on the rope to empty. When you do that your really feeling like Mayfield for real.
  14. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I have always doubted the amount of work time. Once before on here I got into an exchange over the very topic.

    My analogy has always been if you enter the gym at 6PM and leave at 8PM you did not work out for 2 hours. There was time between sets, trips to the water fountain, waiting for a machine, etc. etc.

    An older fellow who ran in those circles in Texas and Oklahoma back then said the lengths of time were true. He put the dog on the jenny, passed out drunk and then woke up to a well worked dog. I do not know if there is any truth to it, or even if the man was a drinker, but I can't believe a dog can go a for 8-10 hours day in and day out. (I understand sled dogs do it but it is in freezing weather with their feet in constant contact with snow and ice. Hard to run hot that way).

    I enjoyed listening to his videos. I wish he had gone deeper into the actual working of the dogs. Even with that, I think back then he was far ahead of his time, and his eye for a dog would keep him ahead of the pack today.

    As it has been said showing up with a good dog is a guy's best shot at a win. He showed up with some good ones.

  15. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    I think he once mentioned sleeping while they worked. He just may have left out the case of cans to put him to sleep.
  16. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    Great thread ! I just wanted to say hello to you all. Also i read a interesting article on anothearticlea while called "Feed a athletic canine like you feed a human athlete " by Bob Stevens. Its a good read . Lots of great info on this thread hand on trail and error. Im not a man of science by any means. I do enjoy learning. Yis. Dex
    slim12 and bamaman like this.
  17. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Some of the Bob Stevens stuff is a little outdated. At the time of the publication it was indeed cutting edge.

    The dessicated liver information sticks out the most for me.

    The use of carbs which at the time was a must and a mainstay, many have swayed from the loading of carbs in canines.

    I have a signed original/1st print of the book. it is a keeper.

    corvettedex and bamaman like this.
  18. MadMax209

    MadMax209 Pup

    What would you recommend if you could only work the dog in the morning, while the show is in the night??
  19. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I have never seen the difference in when the dog works in comparison to the the time of the show. It may be the only thing I don't try to mimic.

    I actually prefer to work in the morning. I work the dog in the morning and feed him a fatty/brothy supplemented solution. Then at night I feed his weight management meal in the evening.

    That works best for me as I work rotating swing shifts.

    MadMax209 likes this.

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