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Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Mr Mark, Sep 3, 2008.

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  1. Ok first of all, being educated on an issue relating to pit bulls specifically and making some premature judgements is not quite the same as knowledge about the breed. I have not gotten ANY questions regarding the breed. Only fighting and irresponsible ownership and responsible ownership. PIT PULL PRIDE: Did you JUST walk into this thread? Must have because if you had not, you would see that I've already apologized about the myspace thing, and I've said COUNTLESS TIMES that I understand people who fight pit bulls and people who genuinely love pit bulls may have the same yard, the same equipment and the same chain setups. STUPID STUPID STUPID. Who are these people that keep regurgitating over and over the same information I've already heard? I dont have a whole lot of time to search through all the forums on here, and you made yourself look bad when you ignored the thread I spoke of, and then said I was stupid and then booted me off the site even if it was temporarily. I never tried to demonize this site...You did that to yourself. I just called it like I saw it. I am educated enough on pit bulls to keep in mind that ANYTHING can happen at ANY TIME and being on your toes and aware of your dogs actions is crucial. You have me mistaken for someone you will hear about in the news. Dont twist my concern for dogfighting and the breed's wellfare for animaniac naivete on how these dogs operate. I've got it down.
  2. GSDbulldog

    GSDbulldog CH Dog

    Uh. What's this thread about now, anyways?

    Are you still voicing your "concern" over that old topic? I think Rocky covered it, but simply discussing something is no clear indication of... anything, really. It's no crime to discuss illegal activities, and of course U.S. laws do not apply everywhere.

    This is Marty's site, and if he sees no issue with that particular thread, leave it be. The site's administrators and moderators are busy enough as it is, keeping an eye on posts that really are questionable and incriminating at best...
  3. Pit Bull Pride

    Pit Bull Pride Big Dog

    Just because I was silent does not by any means mean that I 'just stepped in' to this thread. I had been following it.

    So um....
    With all being said that has been said....

    like GSD said.....what exactley IS this thread about now?

    Since you allegedly admit to your mistakes of falsely accusing people of illegal activities....

    what is the issue at hand now?

  4. KuttersKru

    KuttersKru Top Dog

    The making of premature judgements speaks a lot more than being able to repeat common knowledge easily found in books. The difference between being aware of information and understanding the information presented to you are miles apart from each other.
    If you yourself do not wish to see posts about your intelligence or lack thereof, common sense would dictate that you don't do it to other people
    You also seem fond of this. Hell, you've basically narrowed down your opinions on the entire forum due to Rocky's thread
    Yet you had enough time to find a thread about "dogfighting" and judge the entire forum to be a network for dogfighters? Gathering information and facts requires time. Try actually looking before you make BS judgements. There are many helpful threads stickied right at the top of most subforums
    You made yourself look stupid when you refused to see things to reason and posted some extremely naive statements. Even worse when you limped back to your blog to bawl about it and THEN closed it off to friends only. That's juvenile. You've already admitted to not looking like you should have. Got to wonder which of the two looks dumber
    Strange, none of US ever called this place a network for dogfighters
    So are we
    Do you really? You've yet to actually prove that here. But I do have a question. You're back on the site, Marty's explained himself. So, what's your damage?
  5. ykw

    ykw Pup

    Look, you guys are really letting this "girl" have waaaay too much power in controlling this discussion and framing it in "her" terms (e.g. "this is the issue", this isn't the issue"). I am going to try just once more to help some of you see how engaging her is the completely wrong tactic to take here. Now some already here are also likely working for the law, albeit more surreptitiously, so they also want to help keep this going. Please see how this discussion keeps shifting. Please see how those who are replying and acknowledging that they were on "her" list already are giving more information on themselves with every sentence. Please notice how some who further other fringe arguments best kept in private circles were not in her sights, are not known irl, popped up only a few years ago and only have maybe a couple dogs themselves.

    I saved some of "her" nutty AR bs when it was up on "her" blogs before myspace removed it, which is what this thread was about originally I thought.

    I am going to repost some of it (with line breaks and emphasis added by me) and let it mostly speak for itself. Note the dates appear messed up because smarty pants couldn't fathom that the day came before the month in the DD/MM/YYYY formatting.

    and a comment about Floyd Boudreaux:

    and of course we all know this isn't true, but here's a few recent stories to illustrate the real facts that can't be denied by anyone with an ounce of sense:

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2008
  6. Michele

    Michele Premium Member Premium Member

    that's the problem. you DIDN'T take the time to read the threads on this forum. YOU have ignored TWO questions that were asked of you in this thread. And don't try to put a spin on what you did now. you DID try to demonize this forum by what you did.

    1. What SPECIFIC post got you in a tizzy?

    2. WHAT are YOU doing to help this breed? And that doesn't include you posting that shit up on your myspace page.

    At this point, why don't you just be quiet, READ the threads on the forum and educate yourself. And then, if you still have concerns, post them up in a civilized manner, not plastered all over your myspace page:rolleyes:
  7. jr102770

    jr102770 Pup

    its suprised me this thread went on as long as it did, its clear shes not getting what shes being told.

    shes suspect
  8. This is the thread that I am pissed off about --> http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11934

    Now, you can all stick together and try to defend the conversations occuring in that thread, but if you dont condone dogfighting AT ALL, then why is it still there? If I wanted people to know I did not condone dogfighting, I certainly would not allow posts that are speculating on what makes a good fighting dog. Why even speculate?

    "We have a thread that is one of the most viewed threads on the site, that is about dogfighting but we arent REALLY interested and we dont REALLY fight dogs. We just wanted to talk about how we could possibly better pit bulls for fighting EVEN THOUGH its something that we are TOTALLY against!"

    Is that what Im expected to believe? Get real. If you want to embrace everything about the breed and you just LOVE the fact that they "enjoy" tearing each other apart (whether or not they actually kill one another is beside the point, they are still trying to kill), then by all means, continue on as you were. This was not originally about that thread but that is what it has become because Im sitting here getting bashed by people who say they would never fight their dogs but then those same people turn around and defend discussions on how to make a great fighting dog. Thats BS. Im done discussing the myspace issue. PERIOD. I apologized I learned something and now Im basically just here defending myself because all of you seem to keep INSISTING I dont know what you've already told me at least three or four MILLION times. So whatever I did not get about the myspace issue, Ive got it now so shut up about it. To be honest, all I see is a bunch of smart asses trying to be cute by leaving comments like "Isnt that how they spell the acne stuff?". I mean thats so DUMB. Are you here to talk real grown up talk or are you here to act like the kids that sit in the back of the class and make paper air planes and dont have anything to say beside smartass remarks?
  9. Marty

    Marty Banned

    I'll hold my tongue for now! "cats got it" :rolleyes:

    Naw nevermind I will reply. First words in the post... This thread is intended to deal only with activities outside the US of A. and is for entertainment purposes only.

    I can only do so much about members outside of the US of A, matching dogs is still legal in some countries and I will not go againet what made this breed what it is today... will I ever test the stock I have today? why hell no It's against the law... you should know that ;)

    If this post make's me a dog fighter... then sue me :D
  10. simms

    simms CH Dog

    Marty, kill this thread.
  11. KuttersKru

    KuttersKru Top Dog

    Agreed. It's like talking to a wall at this point
  12. Marty

    Marty Banned

  13. Marty

    Marty Banned


    "First words in the post... This thread is intended to deal only with activities outside the US of A. and is for entertainment purposes only.

    I can only do so much about members outside of the US of A, matching dogs is still legal in some countries and I will not go againet what made this breed what it is today... will I ever test the stock I have today? why hell no It's against the law... you should know that

    If this post make's me a dog fighter... then sue me "

    "As usual, I do not support any activity that goes against the animal act blah blah blah blah blah blah..."

    "Our box is getting smaller don't you see? It use to be the rat terriers that held their ground then it was our breed but now, we have other breeds that have been adapted to perform eagerly and effectively too. Where is this all leading? On our side of the world, we will die stating our dogs are best. On their side of world, the same question will receive variable answers all depending on their local breed."
    "In order to compete in the world's box, are we, game-bred APBT owners (outside US of A), destined to increase our breeds size? Or remain the lightweights in this sport?" (What is funny about this comment is that while this is supposed to be a discussion by people outside the USA...most of the comments left are by people residing in the US and the person who posted the thread has his location as NY.Some however, do reside in Japan.)
    "Yes, these larger breeds do tend to be slower acting than our breed (as heavy weight boxers are slower than lightweight) but have the opportunity to be matched regularly. In addition, it is reported that BK and Kangals fight at a very fast pace and hold their ground just as well as a game-bred APBT.How are Hawaiian, Philippine, European, Asian strains dealing with the "new kids on the block"?Should we be faithful to the "standard" or the breed's purpose?Should we breed to the standard or performance?If the purpose of the breed has change (or is changing) shouldn't the standard?"
    "Should our breed never enter the box against these breeds? Why?"
    "How can we continue to state our dogs are best if we cannot prove it against WORLD opposition?" (Does this look like simple "speculation" for "entertainment purposes" to you? Why would you speculate on something VERY REAL if you have not, and do not intend to, fight your dog?)
    So what do we know about the person who posted this thread? Here is what his disclaimer under his user name states:
    "My stance: I oppose & abhor all forms of animal cruelty and embrace professional dog matching."
    So what you mean is that if you thought dog matching was cruel, you would not embrace it, but you do not feel that it is, therefore you do embrace it.
    "And people go on & on about Tosas but one thing you don't realize is they don't fight to the death. They can't. They will both quit before that due to extreme exhaustion from having to make their massive bodies move." (THIS PERSON'S DISCLAIMER STATES: "If money and pedigree were such sure things, how come they so often failed? If the game was purely about bloodlines and money, the richest owner and most expensive horse would win every time. But you see, they didn't..."
    <FONT color=#ff0000>"LOL I'll ackowledge them as the great dogs their owners claim when they finally step up and consistently win! Our dogs have been unparalled for centuries and I dont see it changing anytime soon. Anyways, I couldnt care less who is a better fighter....one because its illegal, and two because I admire gameness above everything else. We've known for years there are breeds out there that are bigger, bite harder, better wrestlers...whatever. The fact of the matter is.....we choose the one breed that is unparalled in a category we thought was more important "GAMENESS". As has been, and will be, gameness is what will continually make our dogs come out on top in their own sport."

    "Wind, Power, GAME, Fast, Hard mouth The dogs you like are lacking one or more. Changing the size with bull sh!t breeding to get a bigger dog will change our perfect dog. You think thoses big ass mutts will go 3+ hours Like a pit can. Get a BANDDOG.
    No Dog has it all but one."

    Here is my opinion on the matter. As of today, our dogs are the best in the sport (Outside of the US as we in the US do not go against the 1976 act ) <---CUTE, ISNT HE?

    "if you want something to compete in the 200+ class you design a NEW dog. just like at a wrestling tournament your 150 guys wrestle 150 your 200 guys wrestle 200 and there is a difference in the way those two groups of men will wrestle and compete bcs of the size difference tactics and such must change also."

    "I am not proposing to breed for size, color, or anything other than GAMENESS.I would not want to fatten my boy up to go against fit 140lb dogs...no way. My boy may be hot and ready but I am not stupid "

    "People can breed and feed what ever the hell they choose in my opinion. But I also noticed that not only the apbt is a superior fighting dog. Anything near its weight, the apbt is best hand downs. But, not only are there some breeds over there in the middle east that are near apbts weight class, they even have some larger beasts that can scratch like our little terriers!"

    "I think that the newer breeds are very impressive and will only continue to become more so. I don't think pits should be changed what-so-ever, they are amazing for their size. The are truly compact, in handling dogs, I believe there is no breed that size that is as powerful as a pit."

    "Well, the pit bull is the best per pound I'm sure, but there are other breeds that can whoop a good pit. Not that it's fair though..."

    "Fights could easily be staged against say Bob Sapp and a small guy to show his superior size and strength (as he was many times).....that is whats going on with Kangals now. Put them up against bottom of the barrel APBT's and watch them win with ease. Top dogs from each breed (if it was legal) would yeild the same results as it always has before "

    <DIV>"The only real and definitive method to determine that, would be to put down high quality representatives of each breed by weight class and see. Kind of like a World Championship thing. But this of course would have to take place elsewhere...hypothetically."

    Continued below
  14. Marty

    Marty Banned

    "Sorta like in Boxing you don't have to be undefeated to hold the heavy weight championship. In the case of the APBT, most breeders (serious gamedog) want gameness first before the other traits, and size usually doesn't have any concern. If one of their dogs quit in the match it would be lucky to recieve his next meal (maybe not this harsh) but will deffinetly be changing adresses so to speak.
    Now the way I see the matching going on, I think it should stay with in the same breed. Meaning APBT vs APBT, Tosa vs Tosa, and that's how I see alot of other people doing it as well. I think if 2 dogmen want to do a private contract and they meet wieghts and/or are ok with the differance....
    they can do as they wish with their animals. The 2 breeds are bred for 2 differant aspects of the sport of fighting (in general) and wouldn't do much for either for their perspective breeding programs. The rules of the match would also be a major contributing factor on who wins. In the Japanese Tosa rules the Tosa would have an advantage because there is no outta holds, scratchin involved, the entire match is a constant dragged out match were the Tosa can throw his wieght onto the APBT, constantly pushing and constricting if you will the APBT possibly leaving him to blowout, beat down, smothered etc. Another facter is the APBT's style, if he's what I call a "turning dog"(as in a dog that shows bad signs but still would scratch back), or "crying dog"(wether it's pain or fustration or just crazy ass bulldog) the match will be called asap in favor of the Tosa. If the match is in cajun type rules APBT has hit almost hands down because Tosa's (in general) don't scratch worth alick, it's really not part of their breeding program or schooling, none the less if the Tosa does scratch the gameness will become an issue and the APBT has the gameness period. Now this "theory" would only really come into play if one doesn't kill the other ....."

    "I agree with 99 % but i dont believe that a dog can learn to scratch.... I think its ONLY about the breeding program not about schooling"

    "The APBT and Tosa Ken rain supreme in the world of fighting breeds! Most don't give the Tosa Ken its respect in the states because they have only seen poor, overly large examples. The light weight Tosa's are just a fast and skilled as most APBT's and have won against them in contest."

    "Sounds logical ...but it is not true ...physical abilities allone is not important...there are many dogs that are bigger and stronger than bulldogs...but no matter how hard you would train them...most little bulldogs are better fighters...even with poor training and I mean very friendly bulldogs You cant train a dog to fight or to fight better...you train him to give him wind and power.... But the fight is (or is not ) in the dog if you realy understand this you know enough."

    "Believe in your breed. Period and end of sentance. I know by experiance with Tosas and these animals that you talk about. You ask about size change, its been done. Out crossing with "Show and Weight Pull" Castillo-Colby, Castillo-Jeep/Red Boy, and many others. Gameness is there. You just have to put the dog in the situation to bring the gameness out. Then you will answer your own question. Trust and have faith in your breed. Period and end of sentance."

    "Do you have first hand experience with Castillo/RBJ or the like? I've seen castillo dogs go the extra mile, but never truly matched. They are down from OFRN, and imagine that a cross back to deep game stuff would be successful"

    <DIV>"Then why not meet compete with your dog in sanctioned events? <FONT color=#ffffff>You're in and it's legal and numerous clubs that you can compete with-even well established APBT only ones that go by the Cajun rules. You talk about how you've got such a great dog-stop the talking and start SHOWING! Just remember in Japan
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