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mill thoughts... carpet vs slat

Discussion in 'Products & Equipment' started by GK1, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    simple vs high tech? I think there’s more to it. I know, I know.. lots already written on mills here.




    Thinking about investing in a well built mill for supplementary use… will need a large durable one as my dogs range from 45-75 lbs, and are strong.

    I can order a big grand carpet mill today BUT - do I hold off, save up and invest in a slat? Man I really like Trotter, firepaw, HF, RP machines. Slat seems the way to go.

    pros/cons?

    ***btw anyone in the US southwest looking to do in person sale/trade/partial trade - your quality, 100% functional slat mill for 2nd Amendment item…I could be open to it, depending.***
     
  2. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    Dont buy that over priced shit you mentioned. You can get a bad ass quilty mill made and shipped to you for less than any of their "base" mills.
     
  3. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I am a carpet mill fan myself. Actually very few are carpet mills anymore as they are better described as belt mills.

    It is an age old debate as well.

    Like anything the first step is to identify your desired end results. The second step is to identify what the dogs you own typically need. From there the choices are endless.

    I cut my teeth on the old carpet mills forever ago. I then started building carpet mills and fooled with the morphing into belt mills. I tried a number of different combinations on carpets, surfaces, rollers and bearings until I 'stumbled' upon what I wanted in a mill.

    Basically a hard turning mill makes the dog look like he is towing a boat. With the really free turning slat mills it looks like the dog is trying to pretty much keep up with the mill/or catch the mill as it comes around. Both can work in certain situations but neither are my cup of tea.

    I upgraded and downgraded my mills until pretty much however the dog is running the mill his gait on the mill looks as if he were running on the ground, not chasing the mill or towing the boat.

    For over all general fitness and/or indoor calorie burning, looking for a lean/fit dog and not creating an all out sport specific canine-athlete, converting an electric/human treadmill is as good as it gets.

    If it is a weight pulling endeavor I would go with the tougher to turn carpet mill. If it is a sport specific endeavor where the dog has to perform at his lowest/best weight then I would lean toward something free-er turning, a good carpet mill/belt mill or a mid-level (nice/quality) slat mill.

    I'd steer clear of the million dollar models.

    S
     
    oldguy, Holocaust and DISCOIII like this.
  4. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    points taken regarding the titanium and gold plated pricing.

    what you think of mr. bulldog's mill? seems the wooden frame plus semi suspended belt offers impact reduction at higher speeds. looks like this mill can be elevated or resistance added. conceptually, i think it's a fairly versatile design.
     
  5. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog

    I got my mill from someone VERY easily reached through fb.. around the same time my buddy flexed his deeper pocket and bought the all out trotter. It was a SLICK remote controlled fancy fucker... 3x as much as my little plain jane steal with wood slats mill. Guess whos spun more freely? Lol I liked his dont get me wrong. It has every bell and whistle someone could dream of. But in the end I bought a imo better mill, pricey dog and fed the yard for a month for what he put into a sticker and fancy bells and whistles.


    This just my personal opinion and with all I said I also want to quote slim "its just another tool in the shed".
     
    oldguy and DISCOIII like this.
  6. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    A buddy of mine has one and the running surface and mill are pretty compact. He has 53lb male with some length and I swear it looks like his feet are not going to get back to the mill when he opens up.

    It turns really nicely and the craftsmanship is super. If it were a bit longer I would like it a little better. But it looks and performs really well.

    S



     
    oldguy likes this.
  7. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    This happens a lot.

    When I first started selling mills I painted and sanded and used wood filler and sanded and stained and when I got thru the mill was furniture quality. I was really proud of what I had built. When I sold them I felt I should be compensated for my time and my efforts. The price of the mill was higher than the mill was worth.

    I met a guy who pretty much said, "Just frame mine up, get it working and I will pick it up" . I asked about the paint and stain and he said, " some people want a mill to work a dog and some people want a mill to tell his friends about'

    I have not picked up a piece of sand paper or a spray gun in 15 years.

    Cut the price just about in half.

    S



     
  8. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    That's helpful. Yeah he'll custom build to fit the length of the dog, breed factored in too. His design concept is growing on me; but I lean toward the belt over the wooden slats. I have a pretty good repertoire of on/off property routines, but there are definite advantages to the portability, safety, privacy and control a mill provides.

    (Holocaust) I got my mill from someone VERY easily reached through fb.. around the same time my buddy flexed his deeper pocket and bought the all out trotter. It was a SLICK remote controlled fancy fucker... 3x as much as my little plain jane steal with wood slats mill. Guess whos spun more freely? Lol I liked his dont get me wrong. It has every bell and whistle someone could dream of. But in the end I bought a imo better mill, pricey dog and fed the yard for a month for what he put into a sticker and fancy bells and whistles.

    Also helpful as you were able to compare these mills in person. Definite advantages to the solid and simple design; no outlet needed or dozens of addition parts to fail over time. In any case, I think I'll drop a grand to get what I want.
     
    oldguy likes this.
  9. benthere

    benthere CH Dog Staff Member

    If you REALLY want to condition the dog slat is the only choice but it MUST be free turning
    I had 2 Robert Lemm mills and even my patterdales could run them
    Carpet mills build muscle (I bought a mill from Lou Colby)
    Slat mills condition the heart, lungs and the mind of the dog
    If you want a ripped looking dog (ADBA show) use a carpet, Colby is the best IMHO
    How many of those pretty ADBA show dogs could go 15 minutes without getting hot and stopping?
    Close to zero I would bet. Stand around the show ring and most are barking themselves into heatstroke foam pouring from their mouth, that’s not in shape that’s muscle.
    The slat mill is a conditioning tool to be used with other tools and a trained eye using good judgement
    Overwork=failure
    Conditioning boiled down to its essence is working to maximum stress and recovering heart rate while being on your feet
    That’s where conditioning the mind comes in. A good dog knows when he’s in shape. Knows when to coast and when to pour it on, you can’t finish when you can’t breathe, you can’t win if you can’t finish the race.
    He who scratches last scratches hardest was our motto
    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=78650
    3hr ran his last as hard as his first..a true bulldog
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2020
    david63, oldguy and AGK like this.
  10. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    The Colby thoughts/theories very true. Those carpet mills from yesteryear did build muscle and mass. And it is true that muscle mass must be fed with blood and when it is late on Saturday night, first the blood volume has been lowered and it is is high demand. First muscles to tie up is usually the rear end. From there the heart and lungs don't have enough to keep up with the demand.

    Things change. I doubt there are more than a handful of carpet mills left in existence. Even the Colby mills went to end rollers and a better sliding surface. Today's belt mills are more suited.

    I think they all can be tools in the shed and can all serve their purpose. I am not that much on the slat mills. I used a G-Force mill for a number of years and a Curio's Stage II mill before that.

    Over time I wanted more and started building carpet mills first and then they evolved to the belt mill. I made what felt like a million versions til I got to where I thought the dog was not towing a boat on a carpet mill or chasing the belt on a slat mill.

    Then it comes to the part of building muscle mass that must be fed. The object is to be the strongest at the lightest weight. To do that I use the belt mill after I have been on the turn table for a while. Or after running with the four wheeler. I use the carpet/belt mill after he is somewhat spent.

    I do not get as many minutes per session, but just about the same strength (slightly less) but without any of the mass.

    When the goal is power (speed X strength) I like the belt mill better.

    S
     
    oldguy, david63 and AGK like this.
  11. ben brockton

    ben brockton CH Dog

    Save up your money and get dogtroter. Build you a carpet mill.
     
    oldguy likes this.
  12. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    I'm going first with a light-medium resistance belt on a wooden frame built custom. Adding a free turning slat to my inventory is certainly not out of the question in the future. What I look forward to most is the challenge of teaching 4 adult dogs to burn up the mill a few times per week - all of which have yet to see a mill.
     
  13. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    It can be a slow process but like any other thing when teaching the dogs something new, your patience is far more important than their learning curve. LOL

    In the sweetest, friendliest I am your best friend tone I am saying come you piece of shit turn this mill. LOL

    best of luck.

    S
     
    Hazko likes this.

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