Merle

wow my head hurts.....

 

Mods please close this thread....lol

 

cali, no one has ever said ALL merles were pure. Some ARE mixed or at the very least of questionable breeding. But others are pure. Both types are out there.

As far as culling by color, it DOES happen & has happened for years. For example, as I mentioned earlier, the great Howard Heinzl didn't think black was an APBT color & I doubt he would have owned a black dog. I have also known dog men who on the other hand selected their stock based ON certain colors.

But as far as merle goes, the story was told me thusly: There were a small amount of merle APBTs back in the day. Dogmen of old didn't know breeding merle x merle would produce defective dogs. As is usually done, if a good dog was had, it was family bred & if this dog was merle it was sometimes bred to other merles, producing defective animals - these dogs were blind, deaf & some even had no eyes. I think dogs that produce no eyes at all is pretty serious stuff & so did they. Word soon got out these "spotted" dogs were linked to serious defects & it got to a point if one these "spotted" dogs up in a litter it was usually culled at birth. A tiny remnant survived here & there as novelties, but most were culled out of the gene pool making them very little seen until a color breeder saw one in the 1990s, obtained her & decided to capitalize on her color, taking the merle pattern from something that was very little seen to something that is quite familiar.

But this is just what was told to me. You can take it or leave it.

 

ill leave it at this,sure dogs were culled for a variety of reasons,also man biters were bred because they produced in the box,blue dogs were used in the box while the majority say they were culled on color[take Colorado imp 2],i mean unless you were there your just going off hearsay,and the fact that catahoula crosses have been bred into apbts is neither rumor nor speculation,even if it isn't every one it is the majority and some of these so called Merle pits actually have no pit in them what so ever,there corso to catahoula crosses,ab/catahoula crosses with hung papers,thats all I'm saying,its a fact there out there.thats as good a reason as any not to register these dogs.jmo!

 

look in the book of the american pit bull terrier by richard stratton you'll see a merle dog in there.

 

well its far from brain surgery.no Merle dog is infact a apbt,if so show one with its pedigree[which means little since there are supposed Merle dogs with hung papers].it isn't wrong to me that dogs are culled period,its the breeders decision.but why not roll a dog first[Pre 76] to see if ya got something,no matter the color,thats simple logic to me.and there are many dogs that wernt culled by common knowledge,like man biters,if all man biters where culled why was there the zebo dog,or Chinaman or a hole host of others,if all blues were culled then what about the blue lightener dogs,Colorado Imp and the many more that went to corvino?not all thats written is 100% proof,it is just that written.
carry on now with the "Merle dogs are pure bred thread"I'm sure many people can learn alot from that.

 

my fuckin head is spinnin..... :rolleyes:


Vic

 

i dont have the book,only this is the american pitbull terrier.one thing to add,just because stratton has said it dosent makle it truth,hes also the man who claims the apbt is actually the original bulldog with no terrier added sooo.
not to take away from his wealth of knowledge but he isnt the end all be all.but id also like to see the photo if anyone has it.

 

I agree some are mixed. But so are some brindles. So are some rednoses. So are some fawns. So are some blues. Should we stay away from ALL brindles/rednoses/fawns/blues because of this? Of course not. You have to choose your dog by BREEDER, not by color. I don't give a flip what color the dog is, if the breeder is shady, you should steer clear.

As for your CLD theory, all it is right now IS rumor & speculation. Unless I have missed something, no breeder has yet to stand up & say "YES, I bred a CLD into my line!" lol.

And yes, blues were used in the box. So were merles (although not many & not by fast laners, but they were used). BOTH blue & merle have been culled by color & in fact many still to this day select against them simply based on color alone.

But the "it's not pure" thing is not a new phenomenon & it has happened to many colors over the years. In fact, if this were the 1990s & King posted 2 blue dogs, we'd likely be having this very convo about his blue dogs. I remember back when blues just started to make their "debut" & about how many fanciers just refused to believe they were purebred, etc. etc. etc.

In fact, I remember there was a big dust-up about blues going on while a certain breeder was breeding & selling merles through the Gazette hand over fist. People were buying those dogs up like hot cakes & no one was saying a word. It wasn't until the mid 2000s when the UKC & ADBA put their merle policies into effect that the "they're not purebred" thing changed it's focus off of blues & onto merles.

And as a side note 2 reputable registries run by knowledgeable old time dog men still openly register merles. So there has to be something to that b/c these men were not newbs or dummies.

Either way, you're entitled to your opinion & I respect that. The only thing I do not like is when folks put forth their opinions as fact.

Have a nice night & a safe sleep everyone.

EDIT: I can't remember the name of the Stratton book. I think it's got a teal or greenish background, with a white dog with colored natural ears on the cover. The merle dog's name was John Wayne & RS says merle is an APBT color, although it's "rare", which at that time was. If I can find the pic I will try to post it. (Might be able to find it online.)

 

you're talking about bullies not apbts. second can you prove these crosses you're claiming to? you ever hear the name walter komosinski? they said he bred english bull terrier in there and he had monsters(but then again they were one in the same not too long ago).

 

never said he was the most knowledgeable person within this breed i was just telling you to check the picture and you tell me that don't look like a bulldog.

 

i will state this as fact,cld has been addd to some merle apbts,sh#$ many breeds have been added and had the papers hung,its not speculation but arguing about it with some folks whos opinion i respect is just stupid,even if i dont agree with them this time.
tootles abk.

 

Let me tell you the info I have about the culling and color issue is first hand direct from the sources (that means from people that were there and active pre 1976). I have never said that certain colors are not possible, but they are not common either. I think you have me mistaken for someone else as I am not a merle defender (but hey maybe you didn't read the rest of the thread). Show me where anyone on here said that all manbiters were culled or where it says all blues were culled. The choice to keep and work a deaf dog, a manbiter, a cold dog, an off color or a dog with any other issue is that of the owner and no one else. Some decided to keep them and some decided to cull.

 

it's cool man you still haven't brought any proof to the table, but i'll let it be. i respect your opinion, but i must say that a lot of the old school papers have in fact been hung and they're still doing it as of today. so to state that it only happens to mutts is beyond a lot of things. in the end all you can do is feed what you wanna feed and let them feed what they wanna feed thats all you can do(or help by educating and not by arguing and bashing. no one on this board or in the whole world has grasped the knowledge of this breed or any other breeds for that matter, even if they think they know it all), but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as stated before.

 

gapit you quoted me first so dont get upset is i quote you back,as for the proof of mixing apbt and cld,its call a catahoula pitbull dog used for hog catching,do a search on it im done,and yes some idiots have added them to the apbt bloodstream like it or not,i could care less,i discount any merle apbt as a cross and would never own such a dog,but thats just me,carry on with the merle apbts are pure bred dispute,it seems a little backwards for a sight thats supposed to be the most informitive on the net.

 

I feel your pain, easy for conversation to get lost...lol

The band dog is an excellent example and it is well documented.

 

ya,but at least the bandog is a good type usually,theres poor breeders out there of any dog,and at least the bandogs aren't registered as apbts.
Its like this,nobody's saying hey"i mixed mastiff into apbt bulldog to get a am bully,but we dont need the proof,its there in the pudding,why would you need someones admission of guilt with these cld crosses,I'm mean its obvious,there crossed all the time in the south for hog hunting,its no secret,well its obviously a secret to some.
one other thing,i dont see how its a fault in on breed[apbt] but not in another[the Merle color[catahoulas,Danes and Australian Shepard's and border collies do well with the color,i dont get it,further more i dont care just a observation.
i find that usually the ones that are adamant about the legitimacy of Merle apbts have invested interest in them.

 

those are called am. bullies. second you think it is impossible for an apbt to be a merle, when infact nothing as of yet has been seen as impossible. all kinds of possibilities are there don't say it's impossible.

 

believe what you want.

 

i will same to you. we all have opinions and thats what's great, no two humans think exactly alike.