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Kinked tails?

Discussion in 'Health & Nutrition' started by Iverson's Pits, Mar 24, 2006.

  1. Just wanted to know if kinked tails are a genetic defect or have anything to do with lack of space in the whom???
     
  2. japangame

    japangame Big Dog

    i have heard both. I dont know what to tell you.
     
  3. catcher T

    catcher T CH Dog

    it definatly comes from gestation,,being kinked or bent in the womb,,not convinced its genetic
     
  4. lonesharkpits

    lonesharkpits Big Dog

    i would have to say from experience and personal observation it is genetic and tends to always be in a very tight bred dog. I do not think that i have personally seen a kinked tail in a loose or scatterbred dog. Then again this is not based on science just my opinion from my observations.
     
  5. DryCreek

    DryCreek CH Dog

    I have seen a few generation of cats that all have the same kink, so it is possible it's a genetic trait.

    Time to investigate LOL
     
  6. NOVICE

    NOVICE Big Dog

    I've heard kinked tails are not uncommon in tightly bred Corvino dogs.
     
  7. SouthernDixie

    SouthernDixie CH Dog

    Isn't a kinked tail a fault in the show ring?

    I have one with a kinked tail, and I was wondering if you all could tell me if it's severely kinked or just, a little kinked. (Sorry about the oddness of the picture - she tends to get hyper and run with her butt towards the ground - but its the best shot of her tail I could find)
     

    Attached Files:

  8. jbh38

    jbh38 Big Dog

    Kinked tails are genetic, usually they come from tight breeding and a dog with a kink tail will usually produce one in their offspring. I don't know where the cramped womb thing came from, I have heard that too, but it makes no sense.
     
  9. Well...if it were genetic, then why would two straight-tailed dogs produce a litter with a couple kinks? Especially if they were show bred and therefore not from dogs with that fault for at least 6 generations? Not saying that littermates of the ancestors didn't have kinks...I dont know that for sure, but I DO know that both parents, and all contributing ancestors for at least 6 generations (I have pics of all of them) do not have one single kink.

    Here is a ped that most of you wont like (it was done by someone I know for "show" reasons)....but aside from that...this litter produced 2 kinked tails. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=184487 Now, the mother of this litter is TINY for compared to all littermates and the general size of her lineage. There were 8 puppies in this litter and they were pretty good sized.

    Here is the breeding of someone ELSE, which is the same breeding but swap the sexes...you'll see what I mean: http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=186628 . This litter produced 6 pups and 4 had kinked tails. These pups were absolutely HUGE.

    The Sire of the first litter is littermate to the Dam of the second litter
    The Dam of the first litter is littermate to the Sire of the second litter....so its the same breeding....kinda :)

    So this is where the genetic question comes in. This was the same basic breeding, and the 1st one produced 25% with kinks, the 2nd produced 66% with kinks. Sounds Genetic, right?

    But then why no kinks in AT LEAST the last 6 generations??? And in these two breedings, there was definitely a size issue between the mothers and their pups...mothers were pretty small to be throwin pups that size....so was there a lack of space in the dams???

    Attached is a pic of a girl from the "1st" litter whose tail was docked because of the kink.
     

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  10. devinben3

    devinben3 CH Dog

    Ewww why would anyone even consider docking a pitbull tail...thats so not right...i would rather have a curly sharpei tail than a tail cut off....it makes me so mad when ppl ask about cropping pitbull tails, does anyone know exactly why this fad came about? i mean all it does is throw off balance and it looks HORRIBLE....poor pup, she is so pretty besides her tail...
     
  11. I know what you mean, alot of people ask me why my dogs tails aren't cropped..."Pitbulls are supposed to have their tails cut!" B.S. The breeder of that puppy docked the tail because they want to establish themselves as "reputable breeders" and sold that dog for 30% less than the rest of the litter. Shes a sweetheart though....to bad her owner is worthless.



     
  12. DryCreek

    DryCreek CH Dog

    Was there an outcross, or a line cross when the kinks stopped? Are you line breeding or inbreeding now?

    Even just a touch of outside blood can clean a genetic trait until you start tightening up the genetics again, which is when this anomoly will start coming out again.

    Sorry, didn't study the peds, can't read those things well unless I know the bloodlines its coming from.
     
  13. As far as the ped goes, the dogs are Gaff, Woodforest, York, and a little bit of the Older Razors Edge.

    As far as the breeding goes, the litter was double bred off a dog named Zeus, who is VERY straight and correct from all angles (UKC). The major player in the litters pedigree is a Gaff dog named Silver Trojan - the Sire of 3 out of the 4 dogs in the 2nd generation...including, of course, Zeus. I've done research on this dog (trojan), and from what i've gained... no dog which he has directly sired has had a kinked tail.

    So, YES...this was a tighter line-breeding on that dog Trojan, but still, the pups are "scattered" ..i guess you could say...with:

    37.5% Gaff blood.......25% Woodforest blood......12.5% Razorsedge blood....and 12.5% York and Ablepaw stuff.

    Theres no real outcross, cuz although Trojan is in the 1st 4 gens 3 times, the blood is still spread out quite a bit. I dont know where the owners of these dogs or the breeder will go with these dogs in the future.

    Im just searchin for idea on whether Kinks are genetic or pre-birth-environmental....any more suggestions? You dont have to like the pedigree to contribute to the debate!!! :)


     
  14. kinked tails can be a mix of either genetic or not having to much room but more often than not it is genetic i would say about 65%-75% of the time it is genetic it really aint nothing to worry about unless you are showing them.now on the docking of the tail issue the only way to me it would be justified is if the dogs tail was so kinked that it looked like it was broken then yeah i would go ahead and dock it but i have only seen a tail that bad once so thats really nothing to worry about.the reason why i say most of the time it is genetic is because as a rule most females have enough room to carry the puppies, and the bones just grow diffrent of a couple pups or maybe just one so to me thats genetic. much like a little person if they have more than one child one of them can be little the other can be average sized it just depends on what genetics they get,same thing with pups it all depends on what genetics they get.

    and no southern your dogs tail isnt badly kinked at all i barely even noticed it but then again i dont see as well as i used to but to me it doesnt look that bad i have seen a lot worse in my time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2006
  15. SouthernDixie

    SouthernDixie CH Dog

    This has been a very interesting topic. I wasn't aware of the causes of kinked tails. My thoughts were that somewhere during puppyhood, someone stepped on the tail and thus causing it to not grow straight! Good topic - very informative!
     
  16. that can happen also southern alot of times the mother will step on the pups tail and it can be broken and we just think it is kinked i have seen that happen a lot espically with new over zealous mothers.
     
  17. SouthernDixie

    SouthernDixie CH Dog

    TEXAS - that could very well be a possibility in my dog's case. She was a single pup and frequently romped around with the "big guys" - which IMO wasn't the best thing for her to be doing.
     
  18. then i would say thats a very good possiabilty then southern
     
  19. DryCreek

    DryCreek CH Dog

    Just found this tidbit....

     
  20. DryCreek

    DryCreek CH Dog

    And this one....

     

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