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Kidney Failure

Discussion in 'Health & Nutrition' started by F.W.K., Feb 21, 2018.

  1. blueboy

    blueboy Big Dog

    F’kin ell where do you go? I need to avoid that practice lol. I only pay £25 for a vaccination per pup. There’s good and bad in everything the veterinary profession included, it’s up to an owner to build a good relationship with their vet. I’ve had a few vets down the years get out of their nice warm beds in the middle of the night to help save a dog or three. The monopoly was created by the idiots at Whitehall not the vets.
     
    kiwidogman likes this.
  2. YellowJohnJocko

    YellowJohnJocko Big Dog

    What does it take then? I'm all ears, teach me something...just because you say it doesn't make it so.

    Come on Souldog inform me...you said good protien, what do you feed exactly?
     
  3. £25 is awesome! (Very cheap)...and believe me u are very blessed to no a vet like that...
     
  4. old goat

    old goat CH Dog

    Whitehead was much better that night and she was in top condition with a top conditioner and handler .
     
    YellowJohnJocko likes this.
  5. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    @ blueboy.. I live in the city that pioneered and successfully cloned Dolly the sheep, so no shortage of talent here, but the knowledge and prices of high street vets are horrendous.. I once took a dog to the vet to have blood taken, my appointment was on a Friday and the vet told me there was no point in going ahead since the laboratory closed over the weekend.. I said ok, I'll come back next week, which was naïve since no high street vet I know of lets you leave their practice without getting your money first! She put my dog up on the table, placed her stethoscope on usual respiratory examination points, told me my dog's heart and lungs were fine and charged me £25 for that information! Firstly, I never asked her to examine my dogs chest. Secondly, I wasn't paying her any £25 and thirdly, my dog was running 6miles next to a bike, doing 30 minute flirt pole sessions and blasting a treadmill for an hour a day, (apart from days off) so I already knew his heart and lungs were fine! Another UK vet scam is charging clueless customers £30 for a 1ml penicillin jab, won't do any harm, but probably not even needed! 100ml bottle of Pen & Strep costs around £15? If the vet charges £30 per 1ml injection (regardless of whether it's required) that's 100 x £30, minus the cost of penicillin.. That's legalised drug dealing! I apologise for getting on my soapbox, this thread supposed to be about Kidney failure, I'll try to behave from now on :)
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  6. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    @Soze the killer.. I sold that dog after winning his 2nd.. The buyer knew about the kidney and subcutaneous fluid issue, said he wanted pups off him, I sold the dog for same price I bought him, which was £300.. Heard later he lost against CH.Boon, don't know whether he got pups first!
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  7. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    How did working dogs survive 70-10000+ years ago without a bag of hill’s scientific prescription to help their kidneys along? Are dogs living that much longer today...working harder, running farther, faster, cooler..with less genetic faults?? I don’t have the answer, but I’ll speculate not really. But hey I'm open minded to learn.

    Brewers Rice, Chicken By-Product Meal, Whole Grain Corn, Egg Product, Pork Fat, Flaxseed, Soybean Oil, Lactic Acid, Chicken Liver Flavor, Potassium Chloride, Pork Protein Isolate, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Natural Flavors.
    https://www.hillspet.com/dog-food/pd-gd-canine-dry
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  8. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    You made a good point about the idiots at Whitehall being behind the vets monopoly, they're also the ones behind the creeping culture of Pet Insurance, now it's mandatory in UK to have your dog micro chipped, I suspect soon it'll become law to have pet insurance, just like a car, only instead of being identified through a licence plate, they get you through the dog's micro chip.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  9. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Go to Mushing.com ..Rendering the senses of fat....

    When working dogs were worked they were fed things that were no processed or bagged or preserved.

    When man made things 'better' things went south.

    Then add the internet. Every Tom, Dick and Harry can get half the information he needs and go from there.

    At the end of the day we have started to fin the potential of these dogs. Their potential being reeled in because we have come so far with science.

    Way back then we didn't screw the dogs up. And the ones that were screwed up were culled and not bred because their ear set met a standard or their dad's grand dad was the best damn rabbit jump dog that ever lived.

    It took us awhile but we are finally dragging them down.

    S
     
    Soze the killer and SOULDOG like this.
  10. reids skipper

    reids skipper CH Dog

    Bit off topic but we had a day out on the white hares with cousing dogs / lurchers ... mine was the oldest and at the end started urinating like a red wine colour ... was this kidney damage as you say ?... you are right about the micro chipping oldguy but do you not think its a bit of a scare tactic as i personally have never had mine checked or know anyone that has and have never heard of anyone getting fined for not having them done ?
     
  11. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    Skipper, I think it's only a matter of time before micro chipping and pet insurance is enforced in UK, maybe just my paranoia, but I believe we're one of the most prohibitive countries in western world.. Dogs, guns, knives, drugs, sex, drink, land, even freedom of opinion and thought being tested lately, the financial industry has significant influence over the government, they already know the potential for huge profits in pet insurance, same as the food industry saw it years ago when they expanded pet food production in the 80's.. Just because it's my opinion, don't mean I 'm right!

    From a personal perspective, it's clear how much knowledge is available today compared to 20 years ago.. I remember feeding nothing but a kibble called Wafcol 14% protein, wondering why my dogs lacked enthusiasm and seemed dead on their feet with a tinder dry coat, I bought Bob Steven's book 'Dogs Of Velvet and Steel' read somewhere that he fed raw chicken livers, I tried it and things seemed to get a little better, I probably still fed that Wafcol shit along with the livers, but not for long! Every day is a school day, my homework this month is Mushing.com.. Thanks Slim!
     
  12. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Same here. I look back and I grew up feeding Field Trial. It was maybe the shittiest feed ever. We filled a five gallon bucket half full of dog food and topped it off with water. The feed would soak the water and turn into an oatmeal like mush. It was like $6 a bag. We fed it to all the dogs. I guess what kept them going was we had a poultry plant near here and we got buckets of chicken necks and chicken feet.

    Using your post it shows how things change and how people learn. I too read Bob Stevens book and learned a ton. Times change and science advances. A lot of the things in the Velvet and Steel book have been improved upon and some have been shown to be not as effective as once thought.

    The funniest part is that the dogs have not evolved so much that the information used in the 70's will not work today. That is where so much debate come in to play. Science says 'corn flakes and cabbage' is not the best food source but if a guy was turned onto 'cornflakes and cabbage' from a winner and then in turn wins with 'corn flakes and cabbage'....science and its supports will be hard pressed to convince him otherwise.

    These dogs, like most anything in life, is all about learning. The split second one stops learning he starts losing ground.

    S
     
  13. SOULDOG

    SOULDOG TEMPLE OF THE DOGS

    Slow down hotrod. Lol The best protein for a dog with kidney problems is poultry. Chicken, duck, turkey, pheasant, etc. Its easily digested.
    All your really doin Is giving the dog his/her the best life they have left. When the kidneys are gone that's pretty much it. By the time most people know what's goin on the kidneys are barely working enough to keap the dog alive.
    Which is Im pretty sure around 25% -30%.
     
  14. Exactly what I'm saying old guy...I have many story's similar my self..hey maybe this thred should be called vet shambles!.lol...slightly of topic here,but do u think u can shape one on raw alone??.....I feel like giving up on the kibble!!!
     
  15. I no man..I feel like just going raw all the way...
     
  16. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    If there was a competition on here to find the man who messed up the most dogs through conditioning, I'm sure I'd be in with a chance of winning.. The smart man learns from his own mistakes, but the wise man learns from other peoples! All things being even I'd focus on a raw diet , but if you don't bring a good dog, then you could probably feed fairy dust and the elixir of life and you'll still go home broke :)
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  17. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Very true. It has to start with a good dog. And then a healthy dog. Then a well conditioned dog. Then a properly schooled dog. Then a properly raised dog. Then a properly bred dog. And so on and so on. All are soft links in the chain. If any one of the soft links are broken it can be the end of the ride. Then there are sometimes where the conditioner/handler/owner breaks one of the soft links and the dog keeps it together it spite of his partner.

    I have fed just about every way possible over the years. RAW (totally raw), raw (not as balanced as RAW with a lot less thought put into it but zero kibble, straight kibble and then what I have found works best for me is a mixture.

    I went RAW for a while and the meals were laid out for the week, measured and in balance percentage wise between protein, fat and veggies. Get a couple extra dogs and it becomes too time consuming to set aside a half-day/day prepping meals for the coming week. Plus shopping/plus storage.

    I rented from a guy once who was a butcher in a local market. He brought home a five gallon bucket of any and every thing every day. I walked by the dogs and whatever came out is what that dog got. No rhyme nor reason other than for a year or so I did not have to buy hardly any dog food. Not the best plan at all but for a stint it worked for me.

    Fed straight from bags as well. It is not the best way to feed dogs but it is by far the most convenient.

    And after all these years it is now a mixture. I feed from a bag and add raw feed a couple three times a week. During hunting season they get loaded up on deer meat, rabbit carcasses, etc. etc. I buy whatever is about to go out of date on the meat aisle.

    I would like to say I saw drastic world beating changes in going from bags to raw or bags to RAW. I simply did not. There might be some coat difference here and there but even when I feed from a bag I add cooked fish/chicken grease as an oil additive. Plus occasional scraps from the house.

    The most noticeable difference I saw is the dogs do crap less on raw feed. It is better assimilation and a lot less waste. It is easier to for a dog to be 'empty' when working on raw vs. kibble. Way off topic but this sort of brings it back around to the kidney topic. The kidneys can be damaged during strenuous work if there is a couple of dumps left in the system. Raw feeding really helps here. The second most noticeable thing is the dogs on raw drink far less water as there is a lot of moisture in the raw food and just the opposite it takes a lot of water to assimilate the dry food. So much so a lot of it passes thru (big turds, lots of big turds).

    For most, it is about finding what works for you. For me it is the combination. I admit it would be better to lessen the amount of dogs and up the quality of feed but sometimes that is a easier said than done. Again it is a 'to each his own' process.

    Nice series of posts. I say this often. The best posts are the ones that branch off on to related topics and then work their way back to the original topic. Good posts are like good conversation.

    Sorry for the length.

    S
     
    YellowJohnJocko, bks, ngamla and 2 others like this.
  18. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    I think the above post demonstrates the value of the game-dog site as a learning resource for students of the breed.. A gold mine of knowledge and experience in the forum listings and search window far beyond anything i could have hoped for 30 years ago.. Surely this can only benefit the dogs and raise the standard of ownership and care.. Thanks to everyone who contributed on this site.
     
    Soze the killer and c_note like this.
  19. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I agree, not with that post per se, but this is a great place to learn. Not only tons of people with tons of information but tons of people with a ton more information to give.

    S
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  20. I agree.this site is awesome!... I have to admit it took me a long time before I decided to join this site(security reasons). But I'm glad to say I did!...learning is everything with these dogs and like one of slims post's says, the split second one stop's learning is when one loses ground...and I find it truly amazing the way these dog's bring people together.y'no all walks of life,all different nations,different cullters,ex,ex,ex.who can relate to each other,..all because we all share one thing in common: THE LOVE OF THE GAME DOG!(awesome!!!)...I am a student ,nothing more,nothing less..but the way to learn is listen to people who no more than one's self.which is quite hard if you don't no any body!!!.hence the game dog site!....I haven't been on here to long but I would like to thank every one who's helped me.your words of wisdom have really helped...THANK U ALL!....by the way old guy,tell me some of your mistakes......so I don't make them!!lol!!!.....
     
    Kaos483 likes this.

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