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japanese fighting dogs in australia

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by masta of game, Jun 13, 2009.

  1. gog123

    gog123 Top Dog

    Some fine looking bandogs youve got there. I like to see bandogs being worked otherwise imo its just a pointless cross. Alot of people say they own a bandog yet its from proven pet parents :D and does no task. A bandog is a working dog.
     
  2. Michele

    Michele CH Dog Super Moderator

    We have the same taste. I love Tate too:)
     
  3. Lee Robinson

    Lee Robinson Big Dog

    Thanks for the kind words guys.
     
  4. wardogkennels

    wardogkennels Top Dog

    This is just my opinion but I am highly against cross breeding the APBT. All that leads to is human aggressive monsters. Doing bite and protection work I wish you would use a different breed of dog. As soon as something bad happens and it will, the Pitbull is to blame when actually the breed it was crossed with is more likely to be the cause. It is a bad mixture.
     
  5. Sparkplug

    Sparkplug Pup

    Wardog is preaching the gospel on this one
     
  6. mw9661

    mw9661 Pup

    Linebaugh is one of my favourite bandogs as is lucero's jaws, good work Lee keep it up. :D
     
  7. Lee Robinson

    Lee Robinson Big Dog

    War dog,

    Good news for you. I don't breed these dogs back into the APBT population...meaning, the pit bull breed is not effected by our work.

    More good news, is this is America, where people still have a right to do as they wish for the most part despite others disagreeing.

    In addition, the APBT has been bred into many breeds of dogs to improve them. Also, the APBT itself originated from cross breeding the "Bull-n-Terrier." In fact, the idea of "breeds" is very misleading. All dogs are the same species. What we do is produce "families" that illustrate certain traits. THat is all a "breed" is. Breeders select for traits, nothing more and nothing less.

    What we are doing was done LONG BEFORE the APBT came into existence. And, as far as things like BSL are concerned, names like "wardog" and such are somewhat hypocritical.

    In case you didn't know, man aggressive APBT have existed even within the APBT breed itself since the breed first came into existence. If you doubt this, do a little research on dogs like "Bullyson" and his offspring. This is just one example of many.

    Finally, the breeds traditionally used for PP don't interest me as much. As long as people have responsible ownership, we should be free to do what we do. Irresponsible owners are the problem...which should be something most owners of APBT should know already.

    Fortunately, in America, we don't have to agree. We just all need to be responsible with whatever breed we have. You not liking the idea of cross breeding is no different than someone else not liking the pure APBTs. It is the same justification used in BSL.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2009
  8. gog123

    gog123 Top Dog

    Lee thats a nice reply and i agree its down to the people not the dogs.

    I dont think wardog was telling you what to do, he was just stating what we all already know happens. As soon as a dog attacks its auto deemd a pitbull.
     
  9. mw9661

    mw9661 Pup

    Wardog the funny thing is I have read many forum posts from Lee Robinson on other forums and a lot of the time he does not tell what the percentages of breeds are in his dogs make up I think he is doing it here because it is a Game dog forum but hey I may be wrong either way I also know that his dogs don't go to just anyone. ;)
     
  10. Lee Robinson

    Lee Robinson Big Dog

    I certainly hope not to offend anyone with my view...as it is just my view and I wish to clearly state it. I do not wish to step on anyone else's toes or what they do. As long as they care for their dogs responsibly, that would be there business as far as I am concerned.

    MW, indeed, I normally just refer to my dogs as "Swinfords." The information on percentages only come up because someone asked about the Tosa above, so I was showing the percentages to illustrate how much "Tosa" they were looking at. You are correct that I normally don't post the percentages because people too often think they can just copy a recipe to produce the same thing...which is foolish. Two dogs can be the exact same %, and yet be totally different. For example, you can find two 100% pure APBT, and yet the dogs are totally different in appearance, ability, and style. Put mixing into the picture and it just gets more compounded. A good breeder has to select for TRAITS and doesn't worry about "percent." Breeding dogs is not a cookbook. If they don't understand this, they have no business breeding dogs.
     
  11. mw9661

    mw9661 Pup

    Lee I wasn't trying to take sides here, I was very surprised to find out the % of your dogs to be honest and I sure as hell wont be repeating them as I am of the same school of thought that APBT should not do bitework. However a performance bred bandog of unknown origin that is in no way reffered to as a "pit mix" is very different from someone who has say a 12.5% "pit, 12.5% DDB, 75% Neo calling it a "pit mix". I believe from what I have heard and read that you are a very educated and ethical breeder but you are dealing with people effected DIRECTLY by BSL as am I so you can understand a certain amount of hostility. Any way my word will probably count for absolutely nothing here but I am extremely confident that you are not one of the people contributing to BSL. Keep up the good work.
     
  12. wardogkennels

    wardogkennels Top Dog


    Where are we again? America? where is this country you talk so much about?

    You will be an interesting member to have around here. Welcome to Game-Dog!
     
  13. Lee Robinson

    Lee Robinson Big Dog

    Once produced, the ones that meet our quality standards for the Swinford breed are bred to other quality Swinfords and registered as such within our stud book.

    As far as the America comment, people some times need to be reminded. You're welcome. We do have our rights to disagree and live within our choices. Some people forget that. A lot of blood has been spilt over the centuries to ensure this right.

    I do not wish to offend you, but there are actually two ways in which your post is hypocritical. You are welcome to consider my reply or ignore it, but since you ask, I will point them out. 1. It is hypocritical to impose "breeding restriction" beliefs on others, but to not expect others to do the same to you. That is BSL. To tell one person they shouldn't breed what they like is to open yourself to the belief that it is ok for one to tell others what to breed or not to breed. And, if you do that, well, then you have to be willing to allow others to tell you that the pit bull has no purpose and shouldn't be bred. Which is foolish IMO. Responsibility is what matters. The 2nd way your post was hypocritical is to be concerned about the APBT being blamed...as it suggests concern about about "breed image." The phrase "war dog" suggests an imposing violent nature that some could be offended by.

    Bullyson... http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=51

    BSL is when someone tells others what they can and can not breed regardless of how responsible and law abiding the citizen may be. Proper laws should target irresponsible management and promote responsible management, and not make decisions based upon breed bias. If you are against BSL, you have to stand on that side of the fence. If you are for it in some cases, well, then you have to be willing to be subject to it when someone else gets to decide what is ok and what is not ok. Beware of ALL FORMS of BSL.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2009
  14. Lee Robinson

    Lee Robinson Big Dog

    MW,

    Just for the record, none of my dogs are 75% Neapolitan. I just wanted to clarify that so no one would misunderstand your post.

    I have no problem with people not liking the idea that an APBT shouldn't do bitework or be used in crossing to other dogs used for such. I just have a problem with them wanting to impose their views upon others. That is BSL, and I am against all forms of BSL.
     
  15. Sparkplug

    Sparkplug Pup

    I'm hoping the who is bullyson comment was a joke
     
  16. wardogkennels

    wardogkennels Top Dog

    Just because I said I am highly against something doesn't mean I want it to be against the law and to assume this becuase I disagree with breeding Pit Bulls to anything but Pit Bulls is rediculious.
    What do you do with the dogs that don't meet your Swinford standards?

    Also since you wish not to offend me, don't talk to me like I am some green horn idiot who doesn't know anything about dogs.

    Also I chose Wardog so it would impose a violent nature. Hence the history of the dog. Which in America is my right if you remember.
     
  17. wardogkennels

    wardogkennels Top Dog

  18. Lee Robinson

    Lee Robinson Big Dog

    I believe in your right to do what you want...I just ask you to return the favor.

    I believe you know who Bullyson is, but I don't like to assume one is sarcastic on a message forum. You should know, he was a repeat man biter.

    As far as the dogs go, no one...I repeat no one...is ever given any form of "pit bull" papers on any of our dogs that are part of the Swinford program (meeting the grade or not).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2009
  19. wardogkennels

    wardogkennels Top Dog

    I am just wondering where you assume that I wasn't returning the favor? My original post was that i disagreed with breeding APBT to other breeds. Am i not allow to have my opinion as you are yours?
     
  20. wardogkennels

    wardogkennels Top Dog

    You still haven't told me what you do with the ones that don't qualify to have the Swinford name?
     

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