How valuable is a dog with no papers?

if you need a dog for a job and care less about how to replace him with a replica or near it then you don't need pedigree. papers are just that. Gotta keep track of these dogs and how they're bred so when the man eater comes up you know what not to do and when the ace comes up you know what to do again. papers or no papers the integrity and honesty depend on the man holding the papers or behind the word he speaks..

You dont have to register with a prestigious registry but need to use something even in a private ped yard use like AADR or DRA or something to keep track of the way they are bred. Stratton covers the breeding aspect pretty clearly as does Hammonds. Register those dogs~

 

I guess it all depends WhY you get a dog? If you deal with people you trust(and do your homework) then hand written should/is just fine. Why put yourself on another "list" I prefer them as I do my guns, Unregisterd. All the interst in "PAPERS" has given backyard morons a means to peddle "Its da papers da papers da papers" Let us not forget just because a dog is registered thru any registry does not make the breeding/papers any more valid-trustworthy people do(look at all the debate on the true breeding of just about every single great dog, and or line, just check all these forums they are full of it-lol)-And I would bet money you can replace your awesome hog dog, hunting dog,conformation CH or pet, as well as cull out unwanted traits without papers,to think you need papers to do that that is just ridiculous-all you need to know is THE CORRECT BREEDING and they are not near the same thing.

 

When people come of like this so often as they do I always wonder: "Then you know more than Hammonds, Stratton, and the old timers and their experiences with politics the law and these dogs?"

I treat my dogs like I treat my guns, I value the ones handed down to me the most and do my best to preserve them and keep in them great working order. I agree some of the best dogs in the world are unregistered but thats on account of lazy owners or peddlers inwhich both cases papers never get sent off then it just escalates from there, of course it could be a found or stolen dog too.. so.. register those dogs..

 

I never claimed to know more than anyone did I? Where do GH or Stratton say you have to register your dog? check out the thread "Paper Hanging WTF" (Paper hanging WTF) like I said, and like Hammonds(and others) have directly told me, it is about knowing the true "breeding"-- he/they never said shit about papers-yes we talked peds,(i have talked peds with a few people) and sure they were probably registered dogs since he/they sell pups/dogs to the public, but that never came up in the conversations-if I bought a DOG from GH, hand written would be fine with me.

 

foundation you don't know what your talking about . alot of people don't register their dogs for many reasons . but you can bet they know how they're breed .

 

Also, at some point you would have to agree it is all about trusting the person/persons who turned in said pedigree to which ever registry, and the people/peoples running the registry-and clearly many people had many,many reasons to lie and did so time and time again- and so If you do your research(call people and ask them) and know some people/person to trust so you can verify etc. you can get to the "TRUTH" much faster than peds/papers and books, and that(truth of the lineage) is what matters at the end of the day, right?not the registry or papers. If one cares that is.

 

One other point. Guns are inanimate objects, dogs living breathing things-I treat one quite differently than the other. No dog I ever had lived long eating brass and spitting lead. lol

 

I haven't registered a dog in years. I keep better records than the ADBA does anyway.

I will not sign for someone to register them with the ADBA either. Any of the other registries are fine, just not the ADBA. They don't care about the dogs anymore, they only care about the money they get from registering the dogs, and I will not make them any richer.

 

If someone's placing an unreg dog at public stud like the OP suggested. It seems like money is the motive for that question. If all the offspring are for yourself and close sporting friends it shouldn't matter, if a person is worried about collecting fees from the public it is. Either way the importance of paper, (money or pedigree) drives some people to be false ie. can I make money off puppies from my unregistered dog or will I have to hang paper to make money off my unregistered dog? It's a vicious circle.lol

 

first off if some one is offering a un reg male at stud (but he has no paper witch meens they really dont know how they are bred. Couse if they are bred 100% correct and you have a hand written ped thats all you need to reg a dog. So when Some one says He is pure soandso but I dont have him reg, ask to SEE the hand written ped. NOT will you write me one up you ask to see what they allready Have. dont give him a chance to custom build you a paperback pitbull. If he dont allready have something wrote down or at least a computer run off . If he doesnt have these he has no idea what he is feeding. and you wont also, Yall new guys may not care one bit about a ped.(thats really the right way to bee) But if you grow that pup up and make hims something great. Belive me You are going to want to know the right way he is bred.

 

papers are not proof of how a dog is bred. if you werent there to witness the breeding there is no way to know. the average dogman owns more paperwork than he has dogs from dead dogsand etc. so it is best to stay in your circle and get dogs or breed to dogs from people you know. if you dont know anyone always pick the pup that looks most like the stud

 

peds and papers are the same thing in my book... and I can type it out of gh books where he covers the importance of registering dogs. I don't care one way or another, the best dogs can have hand written pedigree as far as I care. This thread is about paper hanging and someone brought up importance of papers. Again papers and pedigree is the same thing. The papers are supposed to be the pedigree of the dog, other wise theres no point of a registry, thus a certified purbred animal. Knowing the correct breeding is important thats why the papered pedigree "papers" need to be honest. Gonna hide the pedigree or misrepresent the dog by paper which is what is supposed to be able to track the herritage of the dog. Its all about "blood" or dna rather. As far as why people ring them, its all without integrity its called misrepresentation. Claiming to be a heritage your not such as; russian, or irish, or hawaiian or indian when your not is the same kinda issue. Again stratton covers the importance of registered dogs as well and he covers the types of breeders which by his name I was leaning more towards that opinion that its based on the kind of dogman it is. Some are all about the win (prize, stud, and or money) others are sticklers for the genetics and heritage of a dog so you know how to reproduce it. If the papered pedigree is wrong I supposed to remember that the REAL pedigree is this this this and this? Yeah theres integrity there. I don't know why people ring dogs its just dishonest to the person, their dogs, and the people they interact with so said rung papers. I don't know about hustling people, I don't know about being sneaky on a business deal, I don't know about the game; I know about dogs, horses, genetics and pedigree and know that the papers are suppose to be the pedigree of the animal written down, the registry card is not the papers in a breeders sense. If hes bred right the animal should match the ped mentality and conformation .. pedigree should be honest on paper ..

 

If he turns out and you breed him will people that are not close to you want them with out pappers. I think you should keep the dogs and your people close but if you are talking to the public you need pappers. If you cant keep every dog close you should not be breeding

 

I'd have to agree with this ^^^

 

i see very few people that use " papers" for any breeding purpose ? if they do say it it's because XYZ dogs there or XYZ/XYZ dogs made a cross 7 generation back.& the same folks totally overlook genetics & principles. other then getting into a dog show what you doing with your papers ?

 

Re: How valueable is a dog with no papers?

That sounds like a good idea I trust the dog not the paper.

 

Of course the dog makes the papered pedigree valuable; to reproduce him/her you need to know how, thus you need to know his pedigree which is how he/she is bred. I practice the keep of private dogs, and have with private pedigrees. The point is the papers show how the dog is bred and if they're wrong they're wrong. A good dog man can know how a dog is bred despite what the paper say that is very true, BUT the papers are supposed to be honest by way of pedigree of the dog. The police dogs come from Deutchland with a Certificate of Authenticity no pedigree.. The first Mali's were this way as well no pedigree.. Certified pure .. Many of you are absolutely right the working dog needs no pedigree for the avg person. However they keep private peds so you don't know the mali is the perfect blend between APBT and GSD the two ultimate K9s of 20th century. As you said a good dog man knows how a dog is bred without looking at paper. HOWEVER unless we start giving our bulldogs out in the same fashion with no pedigree but a certificate of authenticity (which is what the registry card is + pedigree= papers thus plural). Will I love a paperless dog if he's better than all the others, of course, I have. Is it possible to recreate that dog without knowing the true pedigree? NO you can get REAL close though by breeding by set pedigree in your head or paper based off that one dog.

This conversation comes up on here alot I see, and everyone is missing the big picture.. You need both mentalities working together. Of course a drifter can sell a man a Heinzl looking dog but threw bolio looking pups (thats why you need a pedigree), or you can have a dog that looks like heavy garner thats dead game with no ped and sires a litter to a JRB bitch and get a 6x er. I don't look at the pedigree thinking of $$$$$ I look at a pedigree like a family tree; history in the making. When I see an ace with no pedigree no matter the story I always think "man ... someones dog got jacked." I know thats not the case ALL the time but I would say its at least 50/50. Alot of dishonesty these days. JMO keep them pedigrees honest as you can and trust the few who are honest by way of themselves their dogs and dealings with other people.

 

AS long as u putting promising dogs on the ground and showing wut u saying is wut they getting you'll be a great dogman, and they wouldn't care either abt the papers,, but learned from older guys abt when u start off give them a great price on the do,g and if they come out to be something you'll have good money coming in balreadyecuz Ur word is already proven then..

 

Some dogs were invaluable papers or no papers the history of the breed has proven this time and time again. It's not about the papers it's about the person behind the dogs and what they put into the dogs and the breedings they did. What makes a dog valuable is not the pedigree it's the dog itself good dogs are good dogs even if you strip them of their papers it doesn't take away from what they are or make them any less of a game dog. A CH is a CH with or without a pedigree. Titles are earned not given and a pedigree is a way to keep track of those titles and breedings on paper it doesn't prove how valuable a dog is for breeding or working only the dog can prove that.

 

im in nc and had the best bradshaw male breed in the 2000's and i got him without papers. and wish i still had my son. keyword in my post "my son". my 1st bulldog i bought after ther army & 10000% smart,strong,steady pace,wrestler,and a impressive grip.any real dogman that seen would been proud to have non-papered animals from him. papers only make breeding easier for since i farm out dogs vs sell