Free health care in America

from what i understand the er's is starting to turn ppl away who cant pay,,

the system we have today forces the honest working ppl to have to lie or die

 

As for Michael Moore, I don't believe everything I read. Just like the media reports on apbts, it is biased. One persons beliefs and agendas intertwined in the report. Not saying he is all bad, just that I don't believe half of what I read.

 

Why the hell not ? I have to pay for my docotor visits and meds. The working man has to pay because they can and the folks who don't work get it for free ? Yea thats fair.

As for government health...no thank you, I'll pay my own way the way it was intended.
If the government gains control of the healthcare system then this country will flop, how many people are going to put themselves through medical school to get paid minimum wage ? That right there will be the beginning, the quality of care that will be being provided will deminish and we'll have a bunch of half rate doctors doing these treatments.....how does that sound, not too good huh ? Then on top of that you will have the government telling us who gets treatment & who doesn't, that will frost my ass to see some welfare recipient getting a kidney transplant over a working man because they "qualify" better, that is straight up bullshit.

There is no need to tamper with the system, what the government really needs to do is pull back on all the assisted living that they currently run. If you deny and discourage the welfare programs then maybe they would have more cash to to help contribute to the medical world instead of throwing our tax dollars down the drain like they currently do especially on people who sit on thier ass all day waiting for the first of the month to roll around so they can get thier non-earned check in the mail.

 

That'd be great - if we could all pay. But what about us who can't? Should we all be left on the side of the road to sicken & die?

Man, some of you folks are cold hearted.

Forgot to add - I doubt we would get substandard care, the new docs would be hired at minimum wage or they'd flee the country. Those statements sound like GOP scare tactics to me. If the Dr.s decided to leave, where would they go? Most developed countries like Canada & most of Europe already have some type of gov't health care. So where would they flee to? Undeveloped countries where they'd get paid in chickens & hogs? I doubt it.

Now I do NOT agree that the gov't should have any say in who gets seen or how long they have to wait, etc. But I DO think health care most ceretainly needs gov't funding so people like myslef aren't left to suffer & die. I say re-vamp the entire welfare system (most people who are on it need to come off anyway) & stop sending our money overseas to save the world. Then we would have the money (& then some) to set up a sector for those like myself who medically CAN'T help themselves. And those who want to go on buying insurance & paying for yourselves, more power to you, keep doing it & thank God you're able to do that.

But we shouldn't be acting like those who CAN'T help themselves are worthless dirt bags who should be "taking care of their own" & leave them like vermin in the gutter to die. Look, I'll be real. I CAN'T take care of my medical needs on my own. Some won't admit to it, but I will. Even still I'm a person (as well as others like me), we need care too & often we are in our circumstances through no fault of our own.

 

If I were to break my leg or get shot or something like that, I would not be able to afford to walk into a doctors office! But I don't want someone who worked for their money to pay for MY health. I think that THAT is cold hearted.... That's just how I think though. I feel guilty when my friends buy me McDonalds and I can't pay them back! I don't want strangers buying my healthcare

 

Not to sound like an asshole but yea.....how do you think things were done 100 years ago ? That burden should not fall on the tax payer, that is what family is for. I am jaded by the system, my compassion has left me long ago. Its one thing that if you were a contributing factor by paying taxes all along and life knocks you down then that is one thing.....when you never payed a dime in your life and sit there with your hand out....thats a whole different story.

I'll ask you this.....who should get top priority in the governments decisions for medical care....a working person who pays into the taxes or the welfare recipient who never payed a dime ?

 

That is not a scare tactic, that is reality. Why would I go through 9 years of medical school to make less money than a lawyor or a stock broker ? Being highly paid is the reward of those who chose the medical profession, if the government is now paying thier salary do you really think the number of medical students is going to rise or fall ? Med school is not cheap and very time consuming, if the men and women are going to get payed alot less for thier time and effort then you WILL see a decline in the quality of care that will be being provided, thats just common sense.

 

Colby Dogs - Excuse me sir, I *HAVE* paid taxes my whole working life thank you & I continue to do so! Despite my disability, I continue to work, continue to pay taxes & continue to be treated as a second class citizen b/c I don't have insurance & can't afford most heath care. So what kind of mess is that? I'm not some welfare jabba, sitting around getting fat off the state. I'm a working person just like you.

As for your question, I don't mean to be hateful, but as much as I don't agree with welfare, I think both should be treated. But if it they had the same injuries/illness & I had to chose who got treated first, I would choose the working man over the welfare person simply b/c the working man the IMO has earned priority by actually contributing to the system.

Turner - Guess what? You're ALREADY paying for other peoples' health care! It's called Medicare & Medicaid! Plus, you might even be paying for state funded health care! Medicare & Medicaid are federal of course, but some states have health care funded by state taxes. For example, the sate of Tennessee has tax payer funded TennCare. So don't think for one second you aren't already paying for some folks' health care - because you already are! :eek:

EDIT - ColbyDogs, I still think what you are saying are some some scare tactic spew you might have heard on right wing radio. But if you choose to believe it as a fact I respect your choice to do so. But I think it's unfounded. If what you say were true than public health care would not be flourishing in other countries. They do not appear to be (at least to me) suffering from a lack of Drs. or a lack of quality care. The only thing they seem to be lacking is the callous cold-heartedness we have here.

Oh well, I have to go for now, so I won't be posting for a while. I hope you all have a happy & blessed Easter Sunday.

 

Did you miss this ?

IMHO anyone who is a slug in life deserves nothing, you get what you earn...if you never payed a dime then you don't get a dime, its that simple and very cut and dry to me.

You can believe what you want but I happened to have had this exact conversation with some doctors ( my brothers inlaws ) who all said they would not have chosen the medical field had it been controlled by the government.

 

I was "let go" from my last job for having a panic attack on the job.... and they wouldn't let me go home to get my medication and made me continue working. I freaked out so bad that they had to let me leave... when I returned to work a few days later, another panic attack. Panic disorder doesn't care where you are when you have a panic attack. Then when I had to be sent home again, they took me in the office and basically made me sign a sheet saying that I quit. Anxiety disorders, bipolar, major depression...schizophrenia they are real medical problems too. And left un medicated could lead to some really bad things in people's lives who have these conditions. Drug abuse, alcoholism, ruined credit, suicide, or homocide. The disorders alter your thought process, make you think and do things you normally wouldn't. I've learned a lot about psychology. Thats why half the homeless people are crazy because they self medicated with drugs and alcohol because they couldn't see a doc. And their lives basically ended up in the gutter. But some of you just don't care about people like that. They don't deserve the same quality of life. I guess these people should just "toughen up" or something right?

Doctors in Europe and Canada are paid by the government and they are making bank too. On Sicko they interviewed several patients and doctors. They went to a doctors home, and trust me I'd never expect to live the sort of life that doc was livin. He definietly wasn't hurtin for a thing!

 

Although the concept sounds nice, I don't think it would be a good idea, especially with this economy and with the shadiness of the healthcare system now, I only see it becoming 10 times more so if allowed to be run by the government. But, I also don't 100% agree with the whole "take care of you and yours" thing either, especially if you have a mentally handicapped child or family member. People of that nature are expensive and thus, a money sink, and most of the time, it's no one's fault and I don't see why the family members should have to suffer financial ruin for it. But on the other hand, if you decide that you just don't want to pay for healthcare and get it on the government's dime instead, you need to be smacked

 

Do you have a statistical break down of these figures? Half sounds like a awfully big number, are you sure that alot of the homeless people have mental disorders and not just a drug and alchol dependency disorder ?

No I don't care about people like that. Do they deserve the same quality of life that I have....sure I would say they do so long as they earn it and not get it handed to them because they spit out a kid or take advantage of SSI. If you are a burden on society and living off my tax dollar then I honestly have no use for people like that. My heart goes out to the working man, the folks that bust thier ass to make ends meat trying...those are the people I see giving supprt to not people who were born off of the system and stay on the system or the quitters that give up on life. We are given an oppertunity to make what we can out of life, its either sink or swim and I choose to swim, if you choose to sink then all the power to you just don't expect me to tow the line for you, I shouldn't have to nor should any other hard working tax payer.

 

People with mental disorders who can't afford treatment, or refuse to seek treatment.. or treatments don't work.. turn to self medication... alcohol and drugs. They may not be bad people. But with a lot of mental disorders.. people do become addicted to drugs and alcohol.. it's the only thing that makes the pain go away. I don't drink hardly ever, maybe a couple times a month, its not my thing.

Colby - If you've never known the pain that people go through with crippling disorders like this or never seen it for yourself in a family member or friend. Than you will never understand. No body EVER understands unless they've gone through it personally or actually took the time to learn how to care for a family member or friend to help them when they can't help themselves.

My mom has busted her ass for years on 7 dollar an hour jobs.. she's got severe depression, possibly bi polar and severe anxiety. My aunt is bipolar and is on disability, shes got some physical problems too. When your on disability you are allowed to make up to 900 a month, but you can only work a certain number of hours a week.

 

If that's how you feel Colby, can Hells, myself & others like us come to your place & will you give us some good paying jobs so we can afford insurance (remember, in my case it's $600+ dollars!)? Then we wouldn't be these detestful "burdens" you speak of. lol.

As for you talking to your BIL it's great you have inside info. But there si no way the gov't would let the career die. They's provide good pay & if recuits started lowering they'd provide incentives. They do it for the military, you don't think they'd do it in other sectors??? Please.

Back when Medicare/Medicaid was started this very exact same dust up occurred "Oh it's socialism!" "Oh the doctors will leave!" Guess what? NOTHING HAPPENED EXCEPT FOLKS GOT THE CARE THEY NEEDED.

 

There is soooo much misinformation here so far. Please, do some real research before spewing out opinions.

First off, Michael Moore is full of propaganda. He is even laughed at by most politicians (democrat and republican). It is widely known that he will say anything to state his case, regardless if it is a lie.

As to Zoe's comments, is it not true that your country is so overwhelmed that they have to ration services? I talked to a man with cancer who is not getting treatment because his medical records stated that he admitted to smoking in the past. Now, he is going to die of cancer because his cancer is not as "important" as someone else's who never smoked. If it wasn't a socialized system he could have paid for his treatment and be fine. He was traveling to the United States to get his treatment because he was refused in Canada due to rationing.
I can understand that you are happy you're daughter is getting treatment but it is because the doctor feels that your daughter is a higher priority than another person.

Also, it is a myth that you are paying for Medicaid, Medicare, or even Social Security. Your money is not put into an account for future use. All of these funds go straight into the government and spent immediately. When you pay for these things, they are not put into some kind of pool for these services. This is a lie the government tells you. Your money is spent on whatever they want and does not go directly into these programs.

Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid is not insurance.

As quoted by the Brooking Institute's Martha Derthick, " Economic analysts who exposed what they regarded as the myth of social security learned to expect a swift and vigorous response from program executives, especially if critics we liberals and therefore be regarded as natural friends of the system."

Also, not many people go without health insurance in our country as Hillary and other liberals propose. She claimed that it is around 47 million. This is also a lie.

Of that 47 million, 9.5 million are not US citizens. 17 million live in households making over 50,000 a year and could presumably afford health insurance. 18 million are between 18 years old and 34, most of whom were in good health and did not need it or decided not to purchase it. Also, only 30 percent of the nonelderly population who became uninsured in a given year remained uninsured more than 12 months. Almost 50 percent regained their health insurance within 4 months.
As you can see, this 47 million number fed to you by Pelosi and Clinton is a twisting of the truth and highly inaccurate. However, this is their way of scaring you into paying for their socialist programs.

SUPPLY AND DEMAND

In Great Britain, they limit the waiting time to emergency rooms to four hours. Due to the huge demand as opposed to supply, they are now forced to have patients wait outside of the hospital in ambulances to meet this 4 hour wait time. Since they aren't in the hospital, they can use this loophole to get around the 4 hour rule. At any given time there are hundreds sitting in ambulances waiting on treatment.

Is this what we want?

If we implement this socialist healthcare we will have to pay for it somehow through increased taxes. Also, people will leave their current provider for the free care and start going to hospitals for every scrape and cold. The hospitals will flood like they do in every country that has implemented it. Our government will have to step in and start rationing by deciding, literally, who lives and who dies.

Our healthcare system already has problems keeping up with demand. Watch what happens when it becomes socialized.

I hope you don't smoke. I hope you don't drink. I hope you aren't old. If so, you will be at the bottom of the list. Get ready.

What has the government done that is good? Seriously?

Do you want your healthcare ran by people who know nothing of the industry? Do you want your healthcare ran like the DMV?

 

Thats right I am the bad guy because I expect people to work for the things they get out of life...if that is how I am portrayed then call me Dr. Evil. I am one of those people who pay into the goverment at the end of the ywar...no tax refunds here so it does frost my ass to know that money is taken from me while it is given to those who dont deserve it, but I am a bad guy if I speak up about my disdain for those who live off of the system....sorry my thoughts and opinion effect your lifestyle, how do you think it effects people like me who pay for it ?

Again ABK your missing my whole point, you already stated that you worked and would work for what you have,( in my eyes you have paid something and deserve something ) my problem is paying for those who choose to do nothing about thier situation except check thier mailbox at the first of the month when the government checks roll out.

 

No joke right. The medication I take for chronic insomnia would be around 400 a month. It's seroquel.. they only thing that works anymore. I take around 400 to 500 mil a night and if I don't sleep at least 10 to 12 hours I wake up and it's still in effect and I'm very tired.. takes me an hour or so to come out of it.

Did I ever believe growing up that I would ever have these problems. No. I would work if I could. I was very productive for about 4 years. Paying my own car payments, caring for a horse and my dog, paying my insurance, gas, credit card bills. That all got screwed up 2 years ago. Untreated for too long, the severe ups and downs and anxiety. I wish I didn't have it.. but all the wishing in the world isn't going to make it go away. All the wishing in the world won't help ABK either. If I were able to work and get insurance, I would most likely be denied because of pre existing condition. The insurance companies are getting their pockets fat and denying people care so they don't have to pay out when you really do get sick or need medical help. How you going to charge someone 600 a month for insurance and still pay out of pocket expense until you reach a certain number. You still have co pays. Not to mention the pharmacutical companies.. they are banking on us too.

There are people out there less fortunate than you. And don't judge a person just because they have reasons they can't afford luxeries like health insurance. Don't judge because there are people living off poverty levels.

The US helps people in other countries to get medical care that they need.

If we are supposed to be one of the most powerful nations, why don't they stop going overseas and look at whats going on here. Canada, Europe, hell I think it's even Cuba that has free health care. People in guantonomo bay get complete health services, and prisoners get free health care. Now thats a F'n JOKE.

 

I also wanted to add, due to the huge demand as opposed to supply, in Britain, the doctors are given a quota and are not paid past that quota. They can't afford to pay them more for their services past a point.

These doctors can either work for free or go on vacation once they meet the quota.

This furthers the supply and demand problem.

Our country will not be able to afford this and we will end up doing the same thing. Rationing in multiple levels. This is not good.

 

I can sympathize with those of you with high medical expenses and little money.

However, you are being fooled if you think that socialized medicine will help your situation.

Don't believe me? Wait and see.

I doubt there is anything stopping Obama. He claimed that everything he pushes will be transparent and that he would allow adequate time for the public to analyze his programs before he pushes them.

This has been a huge lie. He pushed trillions of dollars in pork without anyone reading it, including the very people that signed it off. He will force this through without any of us even knowing it.

Typical tyranny.

It gets worse from here.

 

Ok, seriously. Hells bells..you aren't winning any sympathy from me for having a panic "disorder".

While the symptoms you have may be very real, they are completely possible to control. I've been there, I was diagnosed with PTSD after dealing with taking care of my dieing mother for 4 years. I refused to take medication, and DEALT with my issues instead of covering it up with medication. I had panic attacks, serious anger control issues, several hospital visits (which I payed out the ass for),high blood pressure, and would black out when I reached a certain stress level. I worked during all of this, training horses, all day every day, 10hrs a day. Sure, it was fucking miserable and there were times I felt crazy, but where there is a will there is a way. In that time they also tried to tell me I was Bipolar. Bull..shit.

I'm not bipolar because I go from happy to sad in 5 minutes, my chemical levels are fucked from dealing with stress 24 hrs a day for 4 yrs. Their pills they were going to give me, would do nothing but fuck the levels up more and COVER UP my problem. Why do you think the docs are so happy to give u pills? Cuz it'll shut you up and make you go away, they have tons of other people to deal with. They just hand out their diagnosis and go on with their life. People WAY overmedicate in this country, I swear most are hypocondriacs. This country is L-A-Z-Y and SPOILED. All you have to do is go get AI'd and have 8 kids and suddenly your a millionaire! :rolleyes:

My sister has 3 children and makes $1000 a month at her job, but gets an outrageous tax return check because she has 3 kids and doesn't make much money. Not to mention the food stamps, and other financial support she gets. It's rediculous, the people that work their asses off get nothing but screwed.

I tell you what, for every medication you've ever been prescribed, you go look up what the chemicals in it do. I can almost gaurantee you whatever it is, either "prevents" or "counteracts" some chemical or synapse function in your brain meaning it's not helping resolve the problem it's just covering it up. 4 years later, I'm fine. All those things have gone away, why? Because I dealt with it and didn't take medications that would just fuck me up more anyway.

I'm sorry you are dealing with it but don't let the word "disorder" fool you. It's just a crutch.