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Floyd or Pac Man?

Discussion in 'Sports & Activities' started by Lakewood Dogger, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I would say Floyd deserves the bigger cut. He is undefeated. He is the champ. He will go down as one of the all time greats. But that is also a double edged sword.

    When a fighter claims he is the greatest, compares himself to the greatest and puts himself in that category you have to fight everybody. A fighter can't say "I am the greatest of all time" but I didn't fight so and so because he wanted 42.7846% and I wanted a straight 60/40 split. " I am the greatest of all time" but I can't fight so and so because he is in control of the PPV. "I am the greatest of all time" but I will not fight a guy who will not test a certain way.

    I'm picking him at this time. I would have more than likely picked him 2009/2010. I just think it would have been more competitive back then. I also think Mayweather could have made it happen pretty much anytime he wanted.

    It is a lot like the dogs. To be the greatest it boils down to a weight and a date.

  2. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    I've been around the fight game a great portion of my life. I find it difficult to swallow that when one man stands ready to fight for a matter of years and the other guy finds one reason or another to nitpick in order to prolong things, that the one who stands ready gets the blame. Nitpicking, by one definition means to find fault with insignificant details. Floyd has certainly done that over and over.

    Now, this is not to say Floyd has been a "scared" fighter. It's to say he is a little over persistent at setting his own style stage for a fight. Does he deserve more money than Pac? Yes. He IS the champion, and he is undefeated.

    This is also not to say that I would pick Pac or bet on him in this fight. I fear Pac's many diversions have gotten in the way of his focus as a fighter, yet he still has a chance because of his speed, power and awkward style which I don't believe Floyd has seen. But I still have to pick Floyd. After all, Floyd, IMO, is the best I've ever seen at not letting a fight become a fight. The ultimate opportunist and exceptionally good at that art.

    Like many, I would love to see Manny put Floyd on queer street, then finish him. Floyd, to me, isn't highly likable due to his flippant act and mouth. Although he surely has always backed it up, it tends to get old. I know most of it is an act in order to keep folks coming just to see him get beaten, and he truly cannot be as complete an asshole as he lets on at times.

    All in all, and for the reasons I mentioned above, I will be pulling for the Pac Man, yet if I had to bet, it would be on Floyd. I hope it's a great fight and that Pac might actually push Floyd to the limit.
  3. ursaminor

    ursaminor Premium Member Premium Member

    I agree with TDK, just hope PAC can pull it off. I much rather prefer a straight ahead dog than a defensive one. I also don't care for a wife beating cur so my opinion is biased. I do think floyd has a better chance of winning here due to having much more at stake. There is also a lot of rubbing in this sport which so who really knows.
  4. the.peon

    the.peon Top Dog

  5. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    ^^^^^ HAHAHAHAHA. I agree with most all of that, Peon. LMFAO
  6. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I agree with TDK. And I have never heard it like that but I will agree Floyd may be the best ever and not allowing a fight turn into a fight. He is a wonderful tactician in the ring.

    Like I said, he is my pick now and would have been back in 2009/2010 as well. I enjoy watching a fighter like Pacquio but I wouldn't bet against the style of Floyd, especially when Floyd is so good at that style. Basically it scores a ton of points and since he is so evasive it almost always lands in the hands of the judges and that favors Floyd both now and back then.

    But I would like to see Manny beat him up pretty good and then land that awkward left that really seems to come from nowhere. He is awkward and relentless. He has speed and power in his class but he is going up a long way to be at 147.

    I too agree when you are everything in the Phillipines except the President, that is a lot going on to focus on one thing. A rock star, a team owner, a politician, a country's icon and the list goes on and on.

    Going with Floyd, but hoping for PAC. S
  7. tubrunwva

    tubrunwva Big Dog

    I think a lot of people don't like floyd the ''person'' as opposed to floyd the boxer. Much like anything else and any sport or competition a person would hate to lose due to cheating, or foul play. No matter whether you agree with his arguement or not, if pacman is/was on the juice, then its not a fair and equal representation of a one on one boxing match, and how many men/camps were/are ducked because they were known cheaters? Who wants to get cheated? Last time I checked money mayweather was 47-0 and where I come from that speaks for itself.
  8. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    Tub, while that is all absolutely true, every fighter is tested at the usual times for all fights, meaning Manny has been tested, as has Floyd before every fight. Why should this fight be any different and off what prior cheating incident would Floyd have been going by with Manny to question such a thing? I don't buy that sudden request to change normal policy with no prior infractions to indicate the need.
  9. patjr

    patjr Top Dog

    They are both great fighters.....hey tubrunwva, are you implying that Manny's loses were due to, perhaps, taking the wrong 'juice ' concoction?

    (side note : ummm, does no MONEY equate to no 'real' effort required, then?..84-6....hmmmm)
  10. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Lots of professional athletes come off as jerks on TV whether they are or are not in real life. Some just want to play ball and go home, others enjoy the spotlight in and out of the ring, on and off the court. Then there are others who revel in that spotlight then do and say things to maintain that light. Then the public perception weighs in and it is usually in a negative light.

    Manny never failed a drug test. Never skipped a test that has been reported. If boxing had no testing and it was just show up and make weight I then could see Floyd's point. Every major sports organization has rules with boxing being no different and Manny followed the testing requirements for boxing.

    I would never say Floyd is scared of fighting anyone but I believe being undefeated is far more important than beating the best that is out there. Personally I think he has waited long enough to where Manny's skills and distractions has taken enough away where most feel he has nothing more than a puncher's chance against Floyd. And with Floyd's skill set a puncher's chance is not a whole lot to go on.

    Floyd has had several chances to prove he is the greatest vs. just claiming to be the greatest.

    Basically if he made the fight happen three-four-five years ago and beat Pac then, it would be a little easier to listen to him shooting his mouth off now. But he ducked for whatever reason presented itself at the time, money, testing, then money, then jail time for beating up his wife (in front of their kid), then money again.

    He is great, and one of the greatest but is decisions to duck will more than likely prevent him from being argued as the greatest. S

  11. CajunBoulette

    CajunBoulette CH Dog

    I think you guys forget that it's about business. Maybe we wish that fighters were obligated to take all the fights we would like them to take when in reality they don't. Truth is it doesn't matter what reason Mayweather decided he wouldn't settle for less than a certain percentage, or why he wanted a certain style of testing. Maybe you guys know of another undefeated champ out there that has won numerous weight classes.... And did it all with giving any real effort.... Lol hilarious..... Geuss we will see may 2, but it won't matter because all most people will say is "if they would have fought 5 years ago". But honestly here's a question, if it wasn't because of this fight would we even give a shit about Pacman fighting again? Because I never heard of the guy until a few years ago behind all the hoopla about him fighting Mayweather, and I have yet to see him live up to the hype around him

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  12. CajunBoulette

    CajunBoulette CH Dog

    Ok let's see peoples list of best or greatest boxers since say... 1995, well let's say 1990, 25 years.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  13. CajunBoulette

    CajunBoulette CH Dog

    Well I'll go ahead and drop one out there..... I think Bernard Hopkins hands down is one of the best boxers to ever lace em up, JCC was like a mythical warrior, Roy Jones jr( doesn't get the credit I think he deserves because of weight class)

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  14. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I am a fan of boxing and with that said I agree the business will prevent a lot of things from happening. That only counts on the way up and to the up and coming guy. The business will only throw him a bone when it is it the best interest of business. That is the business of sports as well as business every where. The almighty dollar will dictate when, where and whether things happen.

    The exception being when one makes it to the top. Do you think Jerry Kraus told Michael Jordan what he would play for and who he would play with? The first few years, yes he did, the last 10 years or so, not so much. Who do you think is throwing the major weight with the Cleveland Cavaliers? LeBron right out of high school or the LeBron of today?

    Floyd is no different. When you are the Manny of the boxing world looking to make that last score or the 'next big thing' coming thru the ranks you take what the business will give. That is fact. But when you are the undefeated champ, and the only really big PPV money draw in the sport, the only 100 plus million dollar fight out there you get to fight who you want to once you have met your title defense obligations.

    And to use a word with a lot of negative connotations in our game, he 'picked' certain fighters the last five years and did not 'pick' others. Right out of a scene from Rocky when Mickey told him about all the 'club bums' he defended the title against and he had no business in the ring with Clubber Lang.

    Floyd is surrounded by people who protect Floyd and by protecting Floyd they protect themselves. He either chose to avoid Manny or was advised to do so via money/testing etc.etc.etc.

    There has not been a lot of great fighters at Floyd's weight for the last number of years. That is not to the fault of Floyd. He beat was out there but he chose to fight who was out there as well. The one guy (Manny) that could move up and make a fight was picked over.

    That can't be fixed or erased. Even beating up Manny on the steps of the old folks home will not fix what the 'greatest' would do. S
  15. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    dont matter a win is a win and if floyd whips manny which i think he will it shouldnt matter if he did now or 4 years ago..How is floyd given less credit? This old slower manny argument holds no water with me.What floyd got a fount of youth and a time machine.Is he not older also.And Bob Arum was the major reason the fight didnt happen.And according to Tony Atlas Pacs camp was real concerned about the ramifications of a posipositive PED test.i wonder why
  16. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    It is the contrast of two styles. Manny is straight forward mix it up in the middle of the ring. Floyd moves and does not get hit. Floyd's style will prolong his career. Manny is slower now than ever, plus he moves up in weight to make it happen.

    No one really knows what a test will reveal. Floyd's camp says it will be positive so we can't fight. Manny's camp is saying it will be negative plus drawing blood within a day or so of the fight would be detrimental. Regardless of why it is an excuse. Floyd is the undefeated champion of the world. He is required to make certain title defenses by boxing but he gets to pick who fights in between. It is obvious he did not pick Manny for whatever reason.

    How can you name yourself "Money Mayweather" and in the last five years the biggest payday in boxing is with Manny and you choose not to make that happen? If there is something to wonder about, for me, that would be it.

    If there is any sport out there where 'older and slower' should hold water it would be boxing. S
  17. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    I know that 4 years ago, I gave Manny a great chance to dethrone Floyd. I viewed the fight as about even odds. I no longer do, and what has transpired and regressed in those 4 years is the reason.

    I DON'T consider the playing field to be nearly as level as it was 4 years ago, or even 3. Does anyone? Manny has stood ready for those 4 years. One can place the blame wherever one wants to. It's STILL not going to be the fight it should have been. And I truly think as Slim said, that reason is to have a greater chance to preserve that undefeated record.

    Funny thing no one mentions is: Manny doesn't need the fight in order to maintain his status as a national hero in his country. Floyd, if he wins as is probable, will never be such in this country.
  18. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    National hero nah not many american boxers transcend to that anymore.but if he wins he'll sit higher in the boxing rankings forever.
  19. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Agreed. I think he has beat who he had to but he picked when it was his choice between defenses, thus preserving the undefeated record. If he indeed finishes undefeated, and I think he will, he will go down as one of the greatest. If he had beaten Manny a few years ago there would be no questions. He could very well go down as the greatest in some eyes. There will be a ton of people, including me, who will always remember he had a choice to leave no doubt, yet he did.S
  20. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    I think a lot of people do understand just how crooked boxing can be. Do they understand just how often, where, and for what reasons, though. So many fights are made AFTER they should have been, all the while they are promoted to us as the caliber of fight we wanted years ago. They are not. And this is not even to mention the ones that were billed that should have never even taken place. A 41 year old Holmes vs. a 21 year old Mike Tyson, for instance. A mere joke of a stepping stone for Mike. I may be off a year or two on those exact ages but you get the meaning.

    IMO, Floyd shouldn't be undefeated if it weren't for Oscar totally abandoning the jab that had him in near total control of his fight with Floyd after the 8th round. I was astonished at the fact NO mention of it was made in his corner for rounds 9, 10, 11 and 12. These are top cabin boxing people. Some things are just huge question marks with no answers, and the boxing game is full of them. It's also full of manipulations we never hear about.

    There is NO question in my mind that this fight is not going to be what it should have been, and I feel that it's by design.

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