Fatal Flaws in Working Dogs

I need to point out some thing about those pictures of Red Boy, as one who saw him when he was younger it should be noted the left elbow throw didn't appear in the dog until he was much older and lost his muscle tone. This a genetic trait. This is a dead give away why many think he is a heavy Red Devil dog because the trait often appeared in older dogs from that line from Corvino's Ch. Shorty down to Gr. Ch. Red Devil R.O.M. and his grand daughterdaughter Gr. Ch. Koko R.O.M. I can show many pictures of the dogs I named when they were younger and you couldn't see it.

 

This is a common mistake people make. Ability comes from the conformation to perform in a pit dog.When they come together, the first thing you see is ability then mouth. Who can get to the sweet spot first and then what it can do. It you can't tell a Pit Dog in 5 or 10 minutes, you need to fined a new hobby. With out ability and mouth, all you have is a glorified roll dog. The last factor in a hunt is gameness but what is most sought after when breeding. Gameness alone won't make you and your dog a winner. It will make you a 2x loser, 1 your dog and 2 your money....

 

One of the best modern pit dogs but wasn't that good of a producer.Hell of a good looking dog, right up until he died in GA.

 

Don't know about that, as best box dogs, he paid the forfeit to us and never would come back. Nor would Ch. Timex. Also S.G. didn't want Timex, but ykw did. IMO the best from those dogs were at B.A.

 

Do people really believe what they write? You never laid eyes on a dog the caliber of Ch. Ruby!

 

Thats bout what I was thinking lmao....Zebo dogs are better producers than given credit for. Imo this is because of two things. When people think zebo dogs thay think Lonzo dogs. there were plenty of zebo dogs in the midwest bred diferently than Lonzos heavy family bred dogs that performed and produced. Second was the artical B.Fife wrote . Nobody seems to have read his follow up artical where he went on to say he was wrong and overall he believed the line produced as well as any. What about t.matts dogs? What about.the Toby dogs etc.....I dont buy the Zebo dogs cant produce bullshit. Maybee Lonzo dogs produce in low percentages but you cant discredit all zebo bred dogs. The eli zebo kingfish dogs shure as hell did there thing in the midwest. Maybee Adams and them texas boys knew something B.fife and Lonzo dident .

 

Not all breedings will work and the Zebo x Honeybunch breeding didn't, maybe their was too much dominant and it all canceled out to recessive. The way I judge an old Ace like Zebo is by looking at whats still here in this day and age bred tight to Zebo and like family (common foundation dogs) Does the line stand on its own or does it need a cross for vigor, has the line produced as good or better than its foundation, is the line on a rise or a decline etc... I then look at dogs bred similiar to Zebo like Henleys Big Boy for example and what if any contribution he has made in the working world of gamedogs.

All breedings are hit and miss regardless of the foundation but some lines and dogs produce better than others, im sure many are thinking "tell me something I dont already know", but some might learn a thing or two so it needed to be said.

NGK

 

not the greatest conformation, but in my eyes not near a fatal flaw, really like this blood. like its been said before a fatal flaw would be no brain, no wind and not wanting to come back everytime and anytime
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=255908

 

This is a good dog a buddy of mine has a daughter off this one ... Obviously not conformation show quality at all but you bet your ass that dog is game. x 2 Love the blood as well...

 

This is more or less what i strive for, conformation wise. Straight, strong front legs. Not a crazy, wide chest which i feel often takes away from movement and ability. Normal height, not 2 low, not 2 tall. Strong back end. Nice, big head with a wide neck.

But as many before me have said, apperance wise there are no fatal flaws.

 

Put Function (Performance) first and everything else will fall into place.

 

Come on!!! Zebo fans are die hards, thats for sure lol. I know someone that had dogs right off him, and every one packed it in! He got so disappointed he went to Medlins Outlaw blood lol.
How many times was Zebo bred to the best producing bitch in history? How many made it? Here come the excuses lol....
At most an 1/8th of Zebo in your line is what will work for you. There were some greats, but how many greats were there compared to how many offspring?

 

The only true physical flaws I have ever seen was a dog in TX that had "lost" its nose, and one in NC that lost most of its front legs somewhere

 

This is a normal build for a box dog........dont want any thing skinnier in our camp. Dont mind a wide chest on a working animal.

 

LOL David offered to give us Zebo, have you ever even seen the dog? I did and seen him in the [] as well as many off him. Oh BTW when bred to Lupe (Ch. Rascal & Ch. Paddy Boy's litter mate sister) Zebo produced 6 winners in 1 litter. Roman's Ch. Jack was a pretty fair dog and so was Ch. Diamond Jim. who I saw all hunt.

 

BTW Ball & Barnes of B & B Kennels in IN. had a female off that breeding that was pretty good.

 

Ch. Ruby the Legend who got off her chain and went into Gr. Ch. Angus 3 weeks out from the show date and that is why they took Ch. Homer or Angus would have done to Jeep what he did to Ch. Otis!Ch. Ruby was known to finished Mayfield's Easy who was famed for stopping Ms. Pool Hall Red 2xw 1xl. aaah the play offs, how quicky people forget.

 

Zebo produced Stepp's Ch. Willie and Adams' Ch. Katy when bred to Tomsic's Spider ROM. Ch. Willie was, as said by some, to have the same destructive force of his sire, by killing each of his opponents in times of :27, :54, and :29 minutes. Others produced by Zebo were Ch. Ruby, Ch. Abuelita, Ch. Zipper, Ch. Diamond Jim, Clemmon's 2XW Z-Boy, Nigger Tobe, Super Gnat's 2XW Blackie and Hughes' Gator just to name a few of the good dogs he sired. He is the grand sire to some great ones like Doc's Ch. Moe who was a Grand Champion until he ran into Red B's Ch. Charlie. Many said that Moe went to the well one time too many in his loss against Charlie. After his victories over Ch. Fargo and his brother Basket, too much was taken out of him to go into a much younger dog like Charlie.

Since were talking Zebo I figured id copy and paste this from a pit story website, I didn't write it and can't confirm either way if its truth, maybe C2K can help us out on this.

NGK

 

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you ! edited to add exactly !exactly! exactly ! @ Both C2k and NGK.

 

I know Doc and the dog, no his last before Red B was Fargo who was picked up game in over 1 hr. over 6 years old. Fargo is the one who took Moe to deep in the well.I know I have seen more dogs off Zebo then anyone on this forum. I know how to produce with the dog, others did not. BTW I saw N. Ch. Zipper as well. Diamond Jim died at a friend of Yankee Greg. Don't forget Ch. Indy.