Eli is always the way.

Again I am just generalizing

Many good, game, family foundations were taken and crossed with Eli strains to produce super, fastlane animals.

My question: Is "Eli" to gamedogs, like "Salt" to Food ?

 

I was thinking about posting a similar guestion.

We know indeed that Eli-dogs are known to be fastlane with a hardmouth. A lot of people cross a bit of Eli in their bloodlines to make up for the lack of mouth.
However I was wondering... tight Eli-dogs... do they lack anything? Should you add certain lines to the mix? Or does it stand on it's own?

 

Just a pitty that we will never know how many other greats were sired by him or bred heavy on him after he was stolen. Termite surely looked like an Eli dog to me, but then again he is down from Jocko who is a Mayfield dog and Mayfield always said that Eli is down from his stock. So maybe Termite was a throw back to the Cotton blood in him. The same blood Eli had according to Mr Mayfield.

 

don't believe the hype eli bloodline is one of the most game bloodline you can get. folks think just by crossing " certain" blood you get mouth,game,ability LMFAO......................dang kelbone you done said the magic M word now we about to have 200pg about how eli was really a M dog. get your boots on.

 

Let's hope it doesn't turn into that Ben

So you believe the Eli-blood is a full package-deal? Needs no other blood pumped into it?

 

no thats not what i belive LB. the bloodline means nothing if the first 4 generation is shiteaters with a good background. the man behind the dogs the biggest factors. the next factor is the dogs genes no matter what bloodline if the breeding dogs dont have the goods odds are the offspring wont have the goods and so on. the best chance to get what you want out of youe eli dogs is to get dogs from dogs that have what you like. and even then you may never get what you were after in the first place. best thing to do is breed like dogs to like dogs to get more like dogs.

 

none of the generalization hold much water. you will consistently get half ass dogs or full package dogs depending on the people maintaining that family of dogs.

 

haha look at the experience talk ..good reply naustroms

 

Man you guys have it so wrong and I can't for the life of me understand why you can't read a simple pedigree. Ben you seem to want to insist time after time that Eli was bred out of Mayfield's dogs and you could not be more wrong. If you believe that Eli was bred the way Mayfield said he was bred then all you have to do is to read the ped and you will see that none of the dogs that Eli has behind him were Don's dogs. To be specific, Eli's sire is said to have been a dog named Little Cotton who was bred by John Langham out of his dog Langham's Cotton. There is no Mayfield anywhere in there, just some family bred Tudor dogs is all that was made of. Eli's dam was supposed to have been a bitch named Start's Cry Baby 4xw. Cry Baby was bred directly by Earl Tudor and then sold to Evelyn Start where she went on to win 4 matches before Mayfield got her. Cry Baby was a cross between dogs of Earl Tudor's breeding to some of the old fighting staff dogs by way of Tex of Elmhurst. So again you can see that there are no dogs bred by Mayfield in there at all. Oh and by the way, Cry Baby's brother was owned by Howard Heinzl and he won 5 good matches for him. That dogs name was Gr Ch White Rock and he was known at that time to be the hardest biting dog there was (hint, hint).
When I asked Don about the dogs that were sired by Eli, he said the best he had seen were the ones bred by John Cotton and were a cross to some pure Corvino blood. Also I want to point out that I don't have any Mayfield dogs, we breed Eli dogs and crosses. I have nothing to gain or lose from advertising Mayfield or his dogs you see.

As far as Jocko goes, another dog that was NOT bred by Mayfield yet he is being attributed with his breeding. Mayfield bred his sire, a dog named Hank. Hank was later bred by someone else to produce Jocko and Mayfield had nothing to do with that. Hank's breeding can be confirmed by VJ who bought the dog as a pup from Don.

As far as the Eli blood goes, just like Naus said there are good and bad, game and cur, hard mouth and no mouth and just about everything in between. And exactly as Naus is implying, the blood is secondary to the man behind the blood and that is the most important thing that determines the quality of ANY dog from ANY bloodline.

 

gringo WTF are you talking about ? you show me 1 post where i ever said eli was a mayfeild dog & i will cull every last dog i own.

 

LMFAO naus post is the same as the post above. hhhmmmmmm i wonder who was the author of that? i'd also bet if you did a serch you'd find the same fella was the first fella on here to coin the frase "man behind the dog is the biggest factor"

 

@Gringo, I dont know anything, so I am not going to get involved in which dog is who's breeding, but would like to ask, who took Cry to Cotton? And would Cotton ever be bred to Cry if it was not done by the person who have done it? If Don Mayfield took Cry to Cotton, then just like Jocko is a product of VJ, so should Eli (if the story is true about Cry being his mother) be listed as a product of Don. Jocko is bred down from Mayfield dogs, but was bred by Vernon. Eli (If he is out of Cry) is then bred down from Earl's dogs, but bred by Mayfield? A owner owning a dog from a certain line that goes and pays stud to breed to a dog from that same line should be given the credit for the breeding, but the resulting dogs should always be labled after the creater of the line. Most if not all Mayfield's dogs are bred down from Earl's dogs, but eventually they became known as Mayfield dogs. If Eli is out of Cry and Mayfield had Eli, would he and his offspring by now also not be known as Mayfield dogs? The most important (as it seems) fact is that Eli can not be listed as a Baudreax dog, but the line created by Baudreax down from Eli should be called Baudreax dogs. Maybe knowing where Eli comes from really is the main reason why it was possible to create a good line down from him. Also if the story is true about Eli being out of Cry, and Baudreax lied about his breeding, then how can we trust any breeding that came from Baudreax? Is all the dogs he showed as being sired by Eli really sired by Eli? Where did Pit General go to? Could he not find his way to FB's yard? Would it really be difficul to hide him in between all those black dogs that looked just like him? Oh how I and so many others would like to know where dogs like Pit General and Eli ended up. I have been learning quite abit in the few weeks I am on this forum and it is all contributed to guys like you Gringo, so thank you for your input. I look at breeding dogs differently then I have a few weeks ago. Pedigree means very little to me now. Pedigree will be a reference point, but the dog infront of me will be what counts. Thank you opening my eyes.

 

do i really have to read all this kelbone lol

 

You dont have to, it was addressed to Gringo.Lol. But your input will be appreciated.

 

i think, i think it doesn't matter lol

 

if you want to know how eli is bred ask floyd go straight to the scorce instead of hearsay. if you can't believe what he telling you if he feel like it. then your free to believe what you want.

 

When Floyd was asked about Eli's breeding he opted to remain silent on the matter. When I asked Don to tell me about it he told me a story. Here is the story that Don told in his own words. You decide who you want to believe.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Let me start at the beginning when i first got in the game,, one of my first FRIENDS in the game was Floyd Boudreaux ,,Floyd and I team right up,, as he had never won a match,, and my first match showed up with lots of gameness and condition,, and such a fact will creat many who wonted to be ones friend ,,,, Floyd and I was close for the early 60,s we ran the roads to gather and visited and talked on the phone regarler,,,,, When in the mid 60s i had Cry Baby bred and my wife and i split up for a short wile ,,,i took Cry FULL of pups to Floyds yard for him to care for when she had pups in less then two weeks . I called Floyd after her dew date and he told me all the pups died ,,,,,,when i picked up Cry Baby about 7 or 8 weeks later it was easy to see she had a litter and had nursed then up till a week or so before i picked her up at Floyds . I looked GOOD but i never said anything to Floyd about it . Then near two years later Floyd showed up at pit side with Eli ,,,,as Elis match started ,,,Carley Hays came up to me and said ,,,"you told me all of Crys pups died" ,,, I said Curley thats what Floyd tole me but i got eyes to and i can see,,,it was the fact that Eli looked more like a TWIN to Cry then her son ,,,,then Leo came up to me and said "Donnnn,,,wher did Floyd get the Black dog ,,did Cry have her pups at Floyds yard ???",,,It was a short time later when a few people in the game such as Leo and Jr. Bush told a few that Floyd told them Eli was out of Cry .. then years later Sonny Skyes told me he seen Cry at Floys house with pups on her ,,and Floyd gave him the pick of the litter ,,,,thir was 6 or so in the litter and two more of them was matched that i know of, and one was the dog known as Ellis Pistol,,,,,, Sonny told me that when Eli won his first match Floyd came up to him and said that was the pup you picked but was never able to come and get . Truth has a way of comeing out in the AMERICAN GAMEDOG GAME as this game is about PROVEN TRUTH ,,,we prove truth in all the SUBJECTS in the BREED ,,,,,All of what i tell you is truth about Eli. and yes you are right Gringo thats about the time Floyd and I split up with our FRIENDSHIP ,,,,,,I have put out a CALLEN for all the older GAMEDOG BREEDERS to come and chat game dogs and the PAST GOOD OL DAYS in the game in our chat room ,,and to post up on our message board in thir name as i do in my nane ,,,Don Mayfield

The hardest and gamest dogs sired by Eli was out of the Corvino bitchs that John Cotton and Jr. Bush bred to him ,,,,they were all game and wining dogs ,,,I allways belived the Zebo dog was one of them and he was sired by Eli when Eli was a stolden dog from John Cottons yard ,,,,,then Eli was shiped to the Indians yard in Calif. and bred to some more bitches,,,,,,,,

General and Eli both were deal to the Indian when they were stolen dogs.Back in those years a good dog could be stold by a number of different people in the game,,,,i know stealen is wrong and was wrong then ,,but it happen in the game and by more then just a few in the game was invoved in the stealing of some of the TOP dogs in the breed such as Dibo ,,Goldie,,Lil Dibos sister ,,Eli,,,Pit General ,,Boleo ,,Black Widow,,and many others. It happen it was wrong but it happen.

 

gringo i know what has been said & herd all the stories from eli being a pound dog to jt coller( sp) bred eli. & i also know what came out of the mans mouth when he was in my area at a confo show talking to the local old time frinds. gringo ain't nothing you can say or post about the happening's of things that was going on in my region. i could care less what don told you over the phone or internet. you wasn't there & i wasn't there. i will get my info from the scorce or from the dogmen that were close to the scorce. if i wanted info on bellon dogs i'd ask the folks that are in that area. not folks on the other side of the world. these guys were in my area gringo same as floyd & eli.

 

Ok Ben, that's just fine with me, I don't care who you or anyone else gets their info from or who they choose to believe. The nice thing about this is that at least with these other stories they have a choice or an option to believe what they like as opposed to being spoon fed info.
Only thing I will add though is that if you read Don's story then I think you will agree that he talks like he was there

 

I think it would've been real nice if Mr Mayfield could tell who all the men were, stealing dogs back then. Maybe then we would've had a pretty good idea how later aces were truely bred??? Seeing that he was so honest about the Eli story why not so honest with his dealings wrt the stolen dogs?
Just a question I'm putting out there.