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Did successful dogmen ever breed curs?

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by sciri21, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    The guy that turned me onto the dogs was friends with VJ. VJ had a partner for a number of years, JY. JY helped me some years back when I built a table and needs some pointers. So I learned a lot from VJ, mostly by proxy I guess.

  2. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    This is a no brainer.

    Tons of good dogs fail because of their teammate. There is no doubts there.

    And secondly I have came home with a game dog but ate bologna sandwiches for a week or so. The guy that left with the winner was at a steak house somewhere, on me. And at the same time I would not trade my bologna sandwich for that winner.

  3. Forever-So REAL

    Forever-So REAL Quintuple Grand Champion Premium Member

    I read a story about Molly bee that her (Dam) EDWARDS' NELLIE was a cold bitch?
  4. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    It is possible.

    Molly Bee had a number of different pedigrees. The bottom side stays the same most of the time but the top varies.

    Mr. Edward's leaned over to 50 of his 'closest' friends and said 'this is how she was bred'.

    Molly Bee was stolen so there were not a lot of known dogs down out of her. Edward's Red Lady was a good one. We used the Molly Bee blood and it worked fairly well with the Mims dogs. It worked mostly because the "Molly Bee" blood we were using was as much, or maybe more Snooty than anything.

    I'm not sure about her mom being cold but it was low percentage line but they could bite. That was just about a guarantee. They might not stay but what they did while they were there was really impressive.

  5. kiwidogman

    kiwidogman Big Dog

    Few people want a yard full of dogs like that, but even fewer people want to be standing across from one. I will call this the Bulldog Paradox.
    slim12 likes this.
  6. Forever-So REAL

    Forever-So REAL Quintuple Grand Champion Premium Member

    Mr.Edwards set out to recreate another BIG BOY. Well as might be be expected, alot of curs were produced. Dogs that would quit even when they would outclass their opponent. They would bite down their opponent and then stand over them or walk away. even worse some would jump the pit even though they were winning
  7. old goat

    old goat CH Dog

  8. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Very true.

    I know of three versions and all three were from words he directly spoke to his closest friends. The guy that helped me a ton in the dogs ran up and down the road with those Molly Bee dogs and he was a big reason Mr. Edwards sold a million dogs. Mr. Edwards would get letters from Wilson Electric Co. asking him to go ahead and cash his paychecks that were older than six months. He sold that many dogs. He would even buy litters from people and then sell them accordingly.

    The dogs were low percentages but were consistently devastating. When one would stay it could compete with any thing and any one.

    I had one down out of his Molly Bee dogs crossed to some Fat Bill's Two Eyes blood. She looked like Molly Bee spit her out. She could do more in ten minutes than most could do in thirty. I never once seen her leave the corner. Never went across the first time. You could face her off and she would not budge but if the other made contact there was hell to pay.

    If I had a dog like her with one or two true scratches in them I would be on top of the world. She never seen the point to go forward but laid the wood if one came to her. Weird.

    And it is true that a lot of them would drop ine and then walk away, almost like, "what else do you want me to do now?".


  9. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Very true.

    They left a lot of 1XW's at the end of their performance career. LOL

  10. c_note

    c_note CH Dog

    What ever happened to the gyp?
  11. kiwidogman

    kiwidogman Big Dog

    Excuses the differentiation between a five minute cur and a three hour one? You don’t make said differentiation?
  12. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I kept her til she was old and gray.

    I never bred her as her never scratching was only hair away from walking away on top and there was a lot of that in her family.

    She was more of a measuring stick.

    I had another from the family bred to Patrick's Kasai. She was just about as impressive but she never made a bad sign nor a bad move. Her scratches were nothing more than a casual stroll. From the first to the last they were all the same, never a pause, always deliberate but nothing more than a walk going over. I had lived by 'don't be surprised when they quit' so I was fully expecting that casual stroll to eventually pull up.

    Some would call that a betting man's dog. I was younger and was looking for a little more willingness or enthusiasm about going across. In hindsight I asked more of her than I should because she answered every time. I found myself looking for the cur rather than trying to find the dog. I bred her to Patrick's Anvil. The guy that owned one of the males made much more money betting on the side with him because he also had the deliberate, yet very slow scratching style.

    This is when I just dumbed down my definition of being game/game enough. If they go, they go, if they do not, then they do not. With the Patrick/Molly Bee bitch she had the skill set to win.

    On the other hand I did not have the brains, nor the nuts, to see it for what it was worth.

  13. old goat

    old goat CH Dog

    Some people will breed it other would never .
  14. kiwidogman

    kiwidogman Big Dog

    Well obviously.

    You haven’t answered my question.
  15. do you class a dog like that as not so game???..this is something that's always interested me.....
    I don't think there not so game.I think they just like fighting when something is fighting back with them..they like the contact!.they like to win the contact!.once they better there opponent,that's enough for them?.they like to beat a dog what's fighting with them?....it is wierd.but not all of them fight to kill..fighting to kill is what I dream about.if I had all dogs like that I would be really happy.,,,but dose it matter?. dose it make a difference from the one with lots of talent what will trash or incapacitate its opponent to a standstill then walk away?.,,if it's opponent can't get up what dose it matter?....
    I'm gonna stop rambiling.,,but interesting subject...game if it trashes its opponent then walks away???..let's here it sir!.
  16. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I'm not sure where the line actually starts and stops. The definition of game is subjective and no one person's definition is any more right or wrong than the next.

    I have dumbed it down for me, but it does not mean the next person can't think it out deeper.

    I do not think you can judge gameness when the dog is on top and winning. So if one is on top and the other is thru, if he walks away it is more of opinion rather than facts when he walks away. When that happens and the scratch is on him and he scratches then he may be one of those dogs that need one to come back at him in order for him to perform.

    This is where opinion based on experience plays a huge factor. Lots of dogs have been culled for bad signs not completely quitting. A couple bad signs and the dog does not get the chance to actually quit or prove gameness. Walking away from a downed opponent is a bad sign. Most of the time that dog will not get another chance.

    It takes time and effort to get to that point and then there is always a chunk of cash riding on the outcome. When time, effort and money are at a premium seldom will people take chances.

    So there is room to debate whether a dog is game or not when he walks away. There is not a lot of instances where people experienced it and then had some information to provide afterwards.

  17. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    I'd have to say I would breed a cur.
    Here's why. To me they all born curs then one day they prove they game. And they are that (game) until they show they are no longer game to compete.
    Now if I had a 3 4 5 6 timer and knowing in all previous contest he met and or exceeded my standards I'd prob breed him or her.
    Now of course if said dog did some truly rank shit like jump the box or turn they aggression towards handlers or some shit id get rid of it then.
    But then again I'm the type that could have ace gr ch and still dont breed that mofo just because. So what do I know
    corvettedex likes this.
  18. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    My opinion has certainly evolved over the years.
    This is true but I think I feel this way because I'm not defined by my dogs.
    To me those who are defined by or shine by the light they dogs provide will always want to be able to say only game dogs were bred or game winning dogs or game winning killer dogs and so on. Nothing wrong with that tho. I'm just saying
    corvettedex likes this.
  19. Mr.Revolution

    Mr.Revolution CH Dog

    Oh shit I'm not even a successful dogman so dont listen to shit I say.
    Oh shit some wouldn't even consider me just a regular dogman.
    Def dont listen to me. You've been warned
    corvettedex and Forever-So REAL like this.
  20. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I feel the same way.

    Sometimes there is all this bulldog stuff rolling around up there and 99.9% of the world could give a fuck less!

    corvettedex likes this.

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