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Dessicated Liver

Discussion in 'Health & Nutrition' started by Kristin, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. cameron

    cameron Big Dog

    nothing will turn you into a "superman", every supplement is a tool and should be looked at as such. a fat kid that takes some tren won't benefit from it unless they push themselves to their limits. so that statement is very flawed..
     
  2. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member

    Exactly Cameron at least someone gets it lol
     
  3. cameron

    cameron Big Dog

    give your source on it being more anabolic then dbol..
     
  4. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    agreed wih most of the posts...i never intended my posts to suggests dessicated liver will make a good dog out of bad one, or an fat and lazy dog into an 'olympic' caliber athlete over night....it is a tool, one of many, i have used in years past....if i said carpet mill is the way to go then a thousand guys would say slat mill...then another thousand would say a straight walking keep...and so on with most every topic that is bulldog...
    the DL worked twenty years ago as an excellent B source, it continues to do so, and will do so until the dog/the man evolves to the point there is no longer any usefulness of vitamin B or its derivitives....seen some good posts here...heard of Rhem but never used it...the post was a good one with some educational benefits right up to the time the name calling started...we are about one post away from 'yo momma so fat...yo momma so skinny'....retract the name calling and get back on point....US1
     
  5. Yas

    Yas Big Dog

    Yeah yeah yeah blah blah blah
     
  6. Yas

    Yas Big Dog

    Of course nothing will turn you into superman overnight but Rhaponticum is the closest natural thing that will give you abnormal results. It is the plant that deer eat who`s antlers grow overnight.

    Re: Source, it`s anabolic activity was first discussed to me personally by Charles Poliquin. From there I did the research. You can find pretty good articles if you put it in Google or even some if you spell it wrong 'Raponticum'. If you can be bothered sifting through thousands of scientific papers the you will find very good papers on Pupmed (the resource that top doctors use.
    I have had good results using it with athletes.
     
  7. Ace1

    Ace1 Big Dog

    Certainly can't argue (nor do I want to) the specifics, I do remember Mayfield saying that the stuff made a big difference for him. I've heard that there are better things today. Whether you use DL or something new and improved, the important thing is to know beforehand what result you are hoping to achieve (purpose), otherwise it makes no difference what you are using. JMO, I agree with Naustroms, Redcell is where it's at...I like to use it concurrently with clovite.. Once upoon a time there was a product called "Supercell," it had a bulldog on the front of the bottle. It was GOOD stuff. Haven't seen any in a long time.
     
  8. TASOSCHATZ

    TASOSCHATZ Big Dog

    I am a Poliquin fun and follow his suggestions and info since the early MM2000 years, about 20 years ago.
    Dessicated liver is just that, dried / dyhadrated liver. Here is a product http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/liv.html 1 serving of 10gr has 7gr protein and 8.5mg cholesterol or 70gr protein and 85mg chol per 100gr. Cooked liver http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3469/2 per 100gr protein 27gr and cholesterol 396mg, about 4 times more protein in the dessicated product 4.5 times cholesterol. If you see the solids (protein, fat etc) in the second link, they add up to 25gr out of 100gr of total product which means that the rest is water. Multiply these solids by 4 to go up to 100gr and you have about the same amount of protein etc. So, it is not a purified product or whatever, just a dry form of liver. If it was else it would be called "purified liver", "liver protein", "cholesterol free liver" or whatever. It is not a milk protein you get from milk by taking away fat, carbs etc. Enough with liver.
    Cholesterol is one think, fat is another. I won't go there but just for your info, the latest studies show that ketogenic diets (Atkins etc) full of meat products cholesterol included, are the most efficient in lowering total cholesterol and also raising HCL (good cholesterol). Studies were between low fat diets, mediterranean diet and Atkins. The traditional low fat had the worst results. Keep in mind that I am from a mediterranean country.
    I guess I speak too much but I am fed up with dieticians going the safe way with stupid diets full of carbs and fruits especially, talking against fats, no matter if lately they discovered good fats.
     
  9. Yas

    Yas Big Dog

    No man you didn`t talk too much, you know your stuff so it`s good that you share your knowledge.
    Some people still think that if you eat fat you get fat. Yes there are 9 calories
    per gram/gramme and if you eat many more calories than you burn then you will get fat (the energy balance theory) but much more important is where the calories come from and the hormonal response to the food.
    As I already said Fat has no effect on insulin and there is no connection between the percentage of fat in the diet and obesity.

    Protein - Stimulates metabolism (thermogenesis)
    Stimulates glucagon
    Is very satiating

    Carbohydrate - Generally has the highest effect on blood sugar
    Has the greatest effect on insulin

    Fat - Does not stimulate insulin

    Insulin - Lowers elevated blood sugar
    Shifts metabolism into "storage" mode
    Converts glucose and protein into fat
    Converts dietary fat into storage
    Removes fat from blood and transports it into fat cells
    Increases body`s production of cholesterol
    Makes the kidneys retain excess fluid
    Stimulates the use of glucose for energy

    Glucagon - Raises low blood sugar
    Shifts metabolism into "burning" mode
    Convers protein and fat to glucose
    Converts dietary fats to ketones and sends them to the tissues for energy
    Releases fat from fat cells into the blood for use by tissues as energy
    Decreases the body`s production of cholesterol
    Makes the kidney`s release excess fluid
    Stimulates the use of fat for energy

    The main time fat makes you fat is when high fat is consumed at the same time as high carb eg. a doughnut.

    As far as health goes it`s trans fats (when hydrogenation changes the natural cis configuration into an unhealthy trans configuration) that are the main problem as we are unable to metabolise/metabolize them into energy resulting in debris that clogs the cells contributing to major health concerns and metabolic ageing/aging.
     
  10. Kristin

    Kristin Big Dog

    Thanks for all the info everyone! I'm learning a lot from it. :)
     
  11. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member

    Basically what I was saying in the beginning about Dessicated liver having less cholesterol and fat then eating cooked liver.

    Now the Atkins diet is all about ALOT of PROTEIN with little fats and very little to no carbs and or sugars. Your cholesterol level lowers while on the atkins diet because you are eating less fat and less carbs and sugar, and at the same time you are loosing alot of weight in a short period of time which burns off alot of fat and the less fat you consume the less cholesterol is made in your system. Dont be so easily fooled by these fad diets claims as most of em are for short term goals and usually fail in the long run.
     
  12. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member

    So you saying if someone consumes 200grams of fat a day you aint gonnna get fat? or get high cholesterol? LMAO
     
  13. TASOSCHATZ

    TASOSCHATZ Big Dog

    Gram per gram of solids, the two forms of liver have no difference and since we discuss them in terms of their value as supplements and not as stomach fillers, your first writing wasn't put in a clear way.
    Atkins diet is not about lot of protein and low fats plus minimum carbs, it is about getting into ketosis by not eating carbs, period. It can be used for lowering and increasing body weight also. There is a school of thought for epilepsy that following an Atkins type of diet keeps incidents of epilepsy away. There are people that treated themselves this way and there is even a movie about the subject in which all the actors are real patients. The medical science do not accept it or hasn't done any research, I am not sure, at least untill the time the movie was shot, but my point is that there are people living the "Atkins way" for many many years and these are the best witnesses about the diet long term effects. No problem there. I am 42 years old, work out for more than 25 years and I finished an atkins type diet last summer in which I lost 14kg (31lb) in 8 weeks. It was the P. Dukan style. I know what I was eating and if it was a lot or not and the quality in terms of nutrients, of it. My cholesterol levels and HDL especially was better than a teenager's. I had no rebound effects afterwards.
    About consuming 200 gr of fat per day and getting fat, well if I assume you mean adding bodyfat is what you mean, if you are in a ketogenic diet it is chemicaly impossible to put fat, human body doesn't work this way. If you also consume carbs and your caloric equilibrium is positive, then you will.
    These are my views and unless someone can point me towards scientific evidence suggesting otherwise, I do not intend to change them.
     
  14. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member

    It does have a difference those two articles you posted showed that Dessicated liver form had less cholesterol and fat then the cooked liver which was my whole point in my first writing. Am I wrong?

    Are there more then one type of Atkins diet as the atkins diet does say you can have some carbs and sugar. You also stated that you finished an atkins diet last summer meaning that the atkins diet is only temporary and not a life time diet? Can one live the rest of there lives on the atkins diet without eating any carbs and sugars?

    So if on a ketogenic state like you mentioned one can consume unlimited amounts of fat wether it be good or bad fats like saturated and trans fat and not get fat/obese with little to no excercises or workouts at all? And also while in that ketogenic state can one consume as much fat as they wanted and not get high bad cholesterol?

    Average daily calorie intake for humans is 2000 calories. Any more then that you will gain weight and become obese. 1 gram of fat has 9 calories in it, while protein and carbs have only 4 grams of calories. So eating 200grms of fat in one meal is equal to about 1800 cals. now times that by 3 meals a day which is close to 6000 calories a day almost triple the amount of the normal calorie intake range. So are you saying that on a Atkins diet in a ketogenic state one can consume unlimited amounts of calories and NOT get fat and become obese and not get high cholesterol?

    A find this subject very intriguing.
     
  15. Yas

    Yas Big Dog

    You did well on the Atkins mate. I`ve been on a high protein/fat and low carb lifestyle for 9 yrs now, since I started studying under Chek and became a Nutrition & Lifestyle Coach in 2002 after 16 yrs on a high carb, low fat diet. It was when I got into Metabolic Typing with my own results showing I was a 'Protein Type'. Before switching over I worked as a lecturer training people to be personal trainers and sent out many trainers with the idea that a low fat diet was good. I remember on another thread that we discussed how there was no physiological need for carbohydrates in the human body. I`m no longer an advocate of Metabolic Typing as modern information show`s that approx only 25% of people are carb tolerant. As you know ketosis forces the body into a fat burning state and the brain, heart and skeletal muscle do just fine on ketones. What is also interesting, although I usually refuse to work with vegetarians there is now a vegetarian Atkins diet called the "Eco-Atkins" which I guess is better than nothing. I have been working as a Strength & Conditioning Coach and also doing BioSignature since 2005 and all my clients/athletes are on high protein, high fat, low carb diets eating 7 meals a day and all drop their body fat % fast.
     
  16. sweetscience

    sweetscience Premium Member Premium Member

    kristan google nupro it is a supplement. I feed it with kibble it contains dl on one of the pet supply sites. i think its name is all natural, you can view the ingredients. I believe if you use the saerch feature on this site, you will find threads/posts on nupro and an ingredient list.
     
  17. versatile

    versatile Big Dog

    nice to see someone understands.
     
  18. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member

    UNDERSTANDS WHAT?????

    Understands that bad cholesterol comes from stress and not from eating unhealthy fatty foods? LMAO

    Understands that even without a insulin spike or really affecting insulin, that eating too much fat will not get stored as excess fat if not burned off? LMAO

    Understands that Rhaponticum is a super drug? LMAO

    Understands that Saturated and Trans fat do not have any connection with major health problems and obesity and won't make you fat or raise cholesterol levels? LMAO

    Maybe I just don't understand go figure LMAO
     
  19. versatile

    versatile Big Dog

    raw fat increases and helps sustain high energy levels. raw fat should play a role in anyones diet who is feeding raw prey model or barf. raw fat actually helps your dog.
     
  20. TASOSCHATZ

    TASOSCHATZ Big Dog

    Yes, maybe some people do not understand, it is true.
     

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