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DA can be trained out of the APBT....

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by SAM_I_AM, Oct 27, 2006.

  1. SAM_I_AM

    SAM_I_AM Big Dog

    This subject has been brought up quite a few times lately. I would like to know who stands where, and why?

    There are some people that think it is possible to totally train a DA dog not to be DA. I dont think that is the case. I feel that this trait cannot be trained out, it can definately be controlled but not totally gone.
     
  2. Attila

    Attila Guest

    Trained out no. Control over your own dog yes. I believe that people if they know how can train their dogs to mind them even during the presence of another dog. I don't expect my dog to put up with any more from another dog than I would another human. I lead by example. Be kind to those that deserve it and eat the heart out of those that don't.
     
  3. ghost 1

    ghost 1 CH Dog

    it might be able to be breed out over several generation of socialization,,,but not trained out,,,a pit bulls just not the same dog without the aggression,,,, they might as well name them pet bulls
     
  4. tommy3

    tommy3 CH Dog

    You can train a dog to behave non-aggressively. But, this will not change the dog's will to get at another dog. It would take alot of socialization from a young age to accomplish this. Also, any dog will act out on its aggression if it is given the right opportunity.

    If you want to train your dog to ACT non-aggressively, you will have to start when the pup is young. I can not imagine trying to teach a full grown dog to behave differently than how it has been instinctively acting for its entire life. If you were to attempt socialization with most full grown APBTs that are even slightly dog aggressive, you will have a fight on your hands.

    It is wise to train your dog not to act like an absolute maniac around other dogs. However, if you expect to rid the dog of its genetic driven animal aggression, you have the wrong breed.
    In my opinion, regardless of training, socialization with other dogs, concerning this breed, is asking for a fight. It will eventually happen with 99% of APBTS and it will always make the breed look bad. Especially, if you are running around telling people that DA is a result of bad ownership and you have trained the DA out of the dog.
     
    14rock and (deleted member) like this.
  5. LuvinBullies

    LuvinBullies CH Dog

    The finest trained horse in the world carries no guarantee that he won't bolt or buck you off one day because something triggered his natural instincts.
    Likewise, the finest trained APBT cannot be expected to completely shed his natural instincts if a situation triggers them, no matter how thorough the training. We are not Gods over animals, and we don't have all control over everything they do under every possible circumstance.

    The only APBT that can be guaranteed not to be DA, ever with 100% certainty, is one who is never exposed to another dog. IMO.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2006
  6. pancho

    pancho Guest

    Aggression cannot be trained out. It can be controlled. Even a match dog can be controlled around other dogs.
    I have seen a dog who won a match one night and won his conformation championship the next day. In UKC.
    Showing aggression has nothing to do with how game a dog is.

    Forgot to add, just because you can control your dog does not mean they can be allowed to be within reaching distance of other dogs. Never allow your dog to run free with other dogs. This is just asking for problems.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2006
  7. ghost 1

    ghost 1 CH Dog

    i agree 100 percent,,,it would take generations of dogs to tame this down,,,
     
  8. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 CH Dog

    DA can be controlled. And a dog can be taught to ignore other dogs while he's working. But as for training an APBT to be lovey-dovey and play with other dogs? Not likely.
     
  9. PitBull_30

    PitBull_30 Top Dog

    That must have been a very clean dog!
     
  10. pancho

    pancho Guest

    The competition in the conformation was better than the competition in the [].
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2006
  11. mydawgs

    mydawgs CH Dog

    After retraining an adult dog..long, hard and expensive....DA is a part of my staff. She will submit to me when it comes to another dog...and it takes massive concentration, she must stay focused. DA is never out of them...my male an APBT is very cold when it comes to other dogs...unless they flip his switch.....and then it is not DA, it's all him. DA and the nature of the APBT are different in my opinion. My Am Staff is as DA as the day is long...my APBT could care less about another dog unless he feels threatened or motivated and then, well lets just say it's all natural.
     
  12. Hoyden

    Hoyden Top Dog

    Good topic. I'm debating with a person over this on a non-pitbull forum.

    Personally, I would rather think that all pitbulls have some level of DA and be safe, then assume and be sorry.

    Because my Birdie is a service dog, I am in a unique position. Fortunately, she isn't too DA. She is fine with meeting strange dogs and we've actually worked with other service dog teams with no issues.

    I have learned her triggers and the warning signs she gives, and she has learned to ignore other dogs, but I am always very vigilent to make sure I don't put her into a bad situation.

    Because she is a pitbull, and the cardinal rule is, Never trust a pitbull not to fight, I carry a break stick and doggie mace in my pouch at all times. I've also learned how to break up a dog fight in-spite of my disabilities, just in case.

    I don't think DA can be trained out of an APBT, but I think that some dogs, with training, can learn to ignore other dogs. But even with a DA dog trained to ignore other dogs, the DA will always be there just under the surface.
     
  13. SAM_I_AM

    SAM_I_AM Big Dog

    thanks thats where i got it from and wanted to know what the view was on this side...
     
  14. Hoyden

    Hoyden Top Dog

    Please don't tell me you're arguing with the same woman! LOL

    She insists that not only can the DA be trained out, but it can be bred out too and it's the "closet gamemen" that are continuing to breed the DA into the dogs. She said her brother works with Military Working Dogs and that he even says the DA can be trained out of a dog.

    I told her sure, it can be bred out over a long period of time, but then you have a different breed of dog.
     
  15. SAM_I_AM

    SAM_I_AM Big Dog

    well i read most...er some of that long @$$ thread but just recently gave up around page 60 something. I dont think that their views will change much on that end. so i posed the question here and see what the majority of people on this side think, just to get a little something going. It is
    turning out well....
     
  16. mikelia

    mikelia Big Dog

    I would like to see a really dog aggressive, adult dog taught to love and play ice with other dogs. I have been around DA dogs of different breeds my whole life, and I do not htink it can be trained out. Controlled, yes, but not trained out.
    My GSD bitch was severly DA, but she was trained to the point that she would not run at other dogs and would allow other dogs to be around, so long as they were well behaved and didn't push her buttons and listened to her when she said to get away. There were only 2 dogs in her whole life she liked, one was her cousin who she knew as a puppy and the other a male we bought and it took her a year to tolerate him. I don't know if she really liked him, but he respected her and she could boss him around and beat on him so he was ok in her books.
    My APBT right now isn't overly DA, but she knows she is not allowed to fight and act like a maniac. I can have her around other dogs and she is fine, so long as they don't get in her face. Mind you she has no interest in playing with them, she doesn't really like other dogs, some she wants to kill and some she tolerates. But she respects me, and my position as authority in the pack. She knows I call the shots and will deal with situations, not her. When my other dog and her get into a fight, I say enough and she backs off immediately. He doesn't, not trained well enough yet, but all I have to do is pull him off of her and thats the end. She understands that I will deal with him and I told her to stop so she'd better well stop.
    I think that that level is as far as you can get with a DA dog. A truly DA dog isn't going to ever be able to go to a dog park and play nicely with all other dogs.
     
  17. Suki

    Suki Guest

    Trained "OUT"????

    I personally do not think so. It can perhaps be managed, but I think it will ALWAYS remain just "below the surface". ALWAYS! and it's definitly better to be "prepared" as such.

    some people will never get it, I don't think....:confused: .....
     
  18. Verderben

    Verderben CH Dog

    You CANNOT train genetics out of a dog. Period. You can train your dog to focus on you and to control itself but it is still dog aggressive and don't think for a second if it gets off the leash that it will not go after another dog. JMO
     
  19. pennsooner

    pennsooner CH Dog

    IMO, anyone who thinks you can "train" the DA out of a Pitbull is a fool. You can mask it to a degree for sure but its still there.


    Sounds like the gum flapping of someone who dosen't really understand the breed or frankly dogs.
     
  20. LuvinBullies

    LuvinBullies CH Dog

    I took a rain day from the horses today, and spent WAY too much time going back and forth between these two forums. Ironically, my first heated debate occurred over here as well- so I feel like I spent the whole day trying to hammer flat a warped sheet of tin with a rubber mallot. Every time both sides almost smoothed out, one would pop up and the whole thing would warp again:o

    I still feel many over there can benefit from the thread- as can the APBT and we who love the breed -if even one person chooses to listen to the truth about our breed as opposed to the lies the media, government, AR groups, etc. dishes out. It's a good opportunity for us to stand by our breed amidst many who do not understand or even care, and to keep ourselves poised in spite of the reason we are there: a very hurting post someone over there made singling out our breed, particularly Lil Bit. It's bound to get a little heated, we love our dogs and so do they. I'm not expecting to change minds, only open them up some.:)

    I once was a petbull owner and rescuer who felt my personal experience with my personal dogs was adequate to be an authority on the APBT. I'm living proof that train of thought does not a make a responsible APBT owner.
     
    Marty and simms like this.

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