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creatine and amino acid suppliments???

Discussion in 'Sports & Activities' started by BFKENNEL, Jul 9, 2004.

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  1. Yea I agree.

     
  2. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Curious to know if anyone has ever used Testolen before and what was the pros/cons?
     
  3. I would be careful with Creatine. It's been mentioned in this thread, but that stuff is dangerous if you don't stay properly hydrated. I have to increase my water intake drastically when I use it. I've been caught out a few times in the gym if I'm lax with staying hydrated. Almost passed out twice because of this. A horrible feeling, and surely counter productive at those times. How do you force a dog to drink enough water?

    I would imagine a well thought out, low dose cycle is actually safer for a dog than creatine. Something like Turinabol which has low sides, and is one of the few under the counter products that actually increases aerobic performance as well as strength.

    Anyway, I'm no expert in conditioning dogs, but I have spent many years weight training. So just my 2 cents.
     
  4. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    One of the things about creatine is that it retains water. Not to the point a dog will be over hydrate, and definitely not to the point of being dehydrated. There are some similarities between conditioning a dog and human conditioning.


    Even a low dose cycle in a dog is a huge endeavor. Very few people use steroids on their dogs and of those few, very few of them know what they are doing. Do they work? Absolutely. Do they screw the dog up more times than not? Absolutely.


    Most can't read a dog anyway, and the need for 4-5-6 blood tests throughout the keep is skipped about 99% of the time. People who use them on dogs usually overly dose the dog and the red blood cell increase starts off as an advantage quickly becomes a disadvantage. The overwhelming majority of dogs on steroids blow hot early and can't recover in time for a second wind to really matter. Basically the heart can only pump molasses for so long.


    The biggest difference in steroids between people and dogs is communication. A person knows when enough is enough. A person knows when an injury should stop the work. Most steroid users are more concerned with the mass or the amount of weight lifted, not the muscular endurance and wind similar to the needs of a conditioned dog. The dog on the other hand can't be easily communicated with, thus he must be read. Reading a dog is an art in itself and most dogs will work thru regardless of detriment. Basically it would be me and you juicing up, going to the gym, and I put duct tape over your mouth and making you lift til I think it is a good idea for you to stop.


    Turinabol would be a good choice as this was the primary steroid of the East Germans from the early 70's til the late 80's, early 90's. The drawback is that it has not been pharmaceutically produced since the early/mid 90's. It is all black market-home brewed now. Odds are the quality now is not where it was in the 80's or if the company continued its production after the mid 90's.


    S
     
  5. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    My buddy who is a juiced up circus freak tells me it is a Mexican made testosterone product made with a higher mg/ml potency than most. Gains in mass and water are to be expected. The extra water will take away from definition so it is better used early with a stronger than normal cutting phase/cycle afterwards and a much more solid after-cycle regimen of the Nolvadex-es.


    He is my resource. Not Dan Ducchane, but the closest I got.


    S






     
  6. Slim, I definitely agree with what you've said. I doubt I would ever use PED's on a dog, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. It is hard enough getting it right on myself. Post cycle therapy is another concern, and something I doubt anyone would bother with on a dog. Just not worth it.
     
  7. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Thanks Slim! I was just curious and cant really find much online about it.. I have a cycle of it ( for myself not my dogs) but was curious as to if there would be a benefit to use it or not on a dog.
     
  8. Saiyagin

    Saiyagin Chihuahua Premium Member

    Creatine dosage for a human is different for dogs especially since most dogs weigh less then 50lbs as most dosages is determined by body weight. If one is concerned about over dosing you can just supplement raw meat,(beef/Venison) as raw meat has natural creatine in it as well as added moisture content.

    One of the main methods to keeping a dog hydrated during a keep and to be able to control his hydration levels/water intake is by adding (X) amounts of water into his kibble. Also certain types of fruits like watermelon is also good for hydration.
     
  9. Thanks Saiyagin. Never considered adding water to kibble. That makes sense.
     
  10. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    Once the weight is determined it must be a proportionate amount of muscle, fat and water. Pulling off fat and muscle and adding water to hit a number is as bad as missing reducing, fat adding muscle and de-hydrating the animal to a certain number. It must be proportionate.


    Most would weigh a dog two and even three times per day toward the end of a hard work cycle. Once 12 hours or so before work, just before work and after work. The food and water is then rationed based on those numbers. How much he loses from day to day and from morning to evening is factored in to the amount of food and water. A good rule of thumb for most dogs is an ounce of water per pound of bodyweight. It will vary slightly from dog to dog but it is a general rule of thumb.


    it is hard for a dog to over hydrate himself as long as he is healthy. He will piss and shit to a good level. The object when controlling the feed and water is to take him to the point where 'normal' pissing and shitting brings him to where he needs to be and that is easiest handled with feeding and working on a strict routine. He will basically piss and shit at just about the same time every day.


    And true. Most supplements are intended for humans and the average 180-200lb male. That is as much as 4 times the weight of the dog. Bare minimum human supplementation is a ton on a dog. It has to be adjusted for the dog's weight.


    S
     
  11. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    I'm looking over at the freak now, a real weight room retard. (pardon the expression). He is a monster in the weight room. I will give him that.


    He says "the Mexican test you listed is usually in a 300ml/mg bottle which is a lot. Most are in the 50ml/mg or 100ml/mg bottles. The 300ml means less shots/bigger doses. Bigger gains per shot (granted if all the work is there). Lots of after cycle meds is required. Gynomecastia (bitch tits), acne, same old, same old for most steroids. It can be dosed down but it is a heavy hitter. Seen dudes get real big, real fast. Heavy lifters."


    Hit me up with any questions. He is a walking encyclopedia in this area. I rip on him a lot. He sounds like a pharmacist on the phone but has his own jacked up version of the English language any other time. S




     
  12. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Lol. Weight room retard. :lol:
    Yes it's the 300ml/mg. I take 1cc every 3 to 4 days. Only trying it out really. I need to gain weight and it's been impossible to do my whole life. Figured I would try this but I know once I stop, if I gained 20 I will most likely loose 15 of it when I come off it. 5 pounds beats 0 though. Lol
    Thanks for the info slim....
     
  13. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    He thinks that is a bit much but to each his own. That works out to 600ml per week. 400ml or so would be better. Everyone is different. He thinks break it half, go 1/2cc (1/2ml) every 3 or 4 days which gets you back closer to the 400ml/wk range.


    If you like the 1cc per week process, lift shorter reps and heavier weight for a 4-6week period and then come off slow, maybe a 1/2cc every 4-5 days for 2 weeks and then bail. During the weaning process drop the weight and increase the reps.


    He said with this test expect some weight drop when you come off due to water retention but should retain a lot of the strength gains if you continue lifting.


    Good luck. By no means is this iron clad or a medical opinion. Just the opinion of a freak with a lot of freak type knowledge. S
     
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