Clouse blood

"**The old magazines are a great resource, as you get pictures of men and dogs, as well as the stories and articles they personally authored and published.
Those stories are from the men who wrote them. The great thing about this is after these men are long gone, we have their versions of stories as told by them.
Nobody can change their meaning 40 years later, because we have their stories, as they told them. These articles are great equalizers for people like yourself, who give out false information and Mike, I don*t think you intend to mislead… I just think you don*t recall facts as sharply as you used to. The picture of Mitzie I had was taken from an old edition of bloodlines and not from your site."


No you didn't get the picture from Bloodlines, what issue was it in? You weren't in dogs or getting Bloodlines back then. So what you do buy an issue off eBay? Who sent the picture into Bloodlines? Also Bloodlines Journal is copyright.
It is clear who has the most access to that information. You seen on my forum the library.
Your misinformation is endless.


**I do not have first-hand knowledge of fighting dogs or dog fights.
I have never handled a dog in a fight (roll or contest), conditioned a dog for a fight, matched a dog, refereed a match or made breedings to produce fighting dogs.
I do however do quite a bit of research and have spoken to many people who have provided their own histories as it relates to these animals.
Nothing more than that.


You aren't telling me anything I don't know. Your writing is clear on that fact. BTW the word is "breeding" plural. But your information isn't direct but often second hand.


**Now you are getting the picture. All I do is research. That*s all I intend to do.
I don*t own dogs, nor do I have the desire to own them.


Then quit dick riding off the breed like a bottom feeder or blood sucker to the breed.
Do something to try to improve the breed and live in the past from era you weren't around in!


**Michael Martin didn*t receive dogs bred by Bert until after Bert*s death.
This was confirmed by both Michael Martin and Bert Clouse*s wife Geraldine.
So he (Bert) could not have bred Belle Star to Motorhead (Michael*s dog).


Mike, come on. I know Michael had the dogs before Bert died. I suppose Farley in Canada didn't have them yet neither? I know when Michael, Jim, and you all got around this breed. You have no clue about any of this. How many times have you talked to Otter?
My friend BA has done more and been in these dogs longer then you ever thought of. You question BA pedigrees, well kiss my ass, everyone is wrong but you...


**So your way out is to change the ped? Nice!
Free advice, stay out of my business or pertaining to my dogs. You have questioned and made comments about what quality of what my line of Hemphill has done. Don't talk about them from the bleachers find out for your self and go get that easy money kid..


**I am disputing your statement because it was wrong. Correct facts are important. You wrote that Bert bred the dam to Java and I proved you wrong.
Now you are changing the ped to save face.


You proved nothing. Posting pedigrees from Online Pedigree service which you posted there isn't proving someone wrong. I owned the bitch. BTW for the record, that litter was UKC registered and I still have copy of her pedigree.
You know nothing about the bitch Java.


**I*m so glad I asked about this when I did.


Oh NO you didn't! Now having from his wife the service paper doesn't prove you attended. There was to many there which knows you didn't!


** Neither of them ever heard of you. Neither of them ever heard of you or had any recollection of you ever being on the yard and both wife and daughter were heavily involved with Bert*s dog activities.
Their words.


Call Clyde Mason's family and ask them what happened and where. I can see why they don't remember because after a couple of times on that yard there was nothing I wanted to see again.
Now I've been nice but keep it up and I will tell how I know Michael had the dogs before Bert died. Because Bert's dogs mouth were so deformed with over bit he had to mush feed them!
I never claimed to be involved with his family and they weren't Dan and I when we were around Bert. Bert didn't bring to any events we were at.

 

**This should be good…
Can you produce any correspondence from Bert, proving that you knew him?
Any pictures with you and the man in the same photo?


Correspondence, for what? He didn't have anything I wanted. His line never was fast lane at the end they weren't worth feeding.
Next you say I didn't know Clyde Mason. We lived in Henderson KY. Just hours from Bert.
Now if you like I can put you on the phone with Dan and let him tell you directly what we saw.
I didn't care for him, Dan was around more then I and I'll let him speak for himself if you want the truth.


I like how you tried to switch the heat off yourself.
I also notice you didn't answer any of my questions, specially about Java.
You can't. You have no clue about my business or my dogs.
And the closest you will ever get is with # & $ somewhere in the wide world.


1982, hum that just don't seem right. My wife and I was only together 3 years? when she reminded me last night about hearing Bert and I on the phone hooking # & $.
In fact, it would have been less then three years if he died 1982.
Funny I don't remember ever hearing the name Mike Page around the sport.
Funny the wife and daughter don't at least remember this because it was a long vocal conversation.
In the end, never was going to be Bert but play match maker into someone else.
I see why you idol worship him.


I never had any, I walked my own path....

 

Your memory I see has faded since 2007…we didn't meet in Vegas, we met in Barstow!

When I mentioned you had an ax to grind with me came from those INCORRECT facts you posted about Berry and the comment you made on that same OFRN board where you stated I.M. and myself have elitist and separatist attitudes.

Oh BTW I got the picture and the only way this can be resolved would be with all three of us in person!

 

It was Barstow. My bad!

So now I understand your reasoning for thinking I had an "axe" to grind.
I recall that I printed a retraction on those points.
No axe to grind here.

In some older correspondence I wrote that while I was needing to pass through Utah, I would look you up while I was in town for a coffee but you were not interested.

We can do a three way by phone with James and he can then tell us why he is saying contrasting things about Stabber and Arrow to each of us. It will be resolved by James' words.

Just curious though...
You already told me that James said Stabber is down from 1/4 of your blood.
James confirmed that he said the same thing to you.

Once James confirms to you that he told me Stabber is from pure KZB stock, you will know what I told you was his words.

So what's to be gained? We already know that James told us different things but just out of curiosity, what will you think when he tells you that Stabber is pure KZB?

 

Successive rants:
No you didn't get the picture from Bloodlines, what issue was it in?
**Let me check my library tonight and I*ll repost.

You weren't in dogs or getting Bloodlines back then.
**That*s true.

So what you do buy an issue off eBay?
**No

Who sent the picture into Bloodlines?
**Will check and get back to you.

Also Bloodlines Journal is copyright.
**Don*t tell on me.

It is clear who has the most access to that information.
You seen on my forum the library.
**You probably have more post 1988 resources than I do as I don*t have an interest beyond that time but your vintage selection does not come close to my collection.

But your information isn't direct but often second hand.
**What I wrote about Java*s dam came from the breeder.

Then quit dick riding off the breed like a bottom feeder or blood sucker to the breed.
**Yikes! Down boy!

Do something to try to improve the breed and live in the past from era you weren't around in!
**Correct facts are important.

Mike, come on. I know Michael had the dogs before Bert died.
**Martin had does down from Cid through Jean before he got his dogs from Bert.
He didn*t have pure Clouse dogs until Bert passed away.
In fact, the only reason Jerri let the dogs go to Michael was because he produced a hand written letter from Bert, agreeing to sell him the dogs.

My friend BA has done more and been in these dogs longer then you ever thought of. You question BA pedigrees, well kiss my ass, everyone is wrong but you...
**I don*t know who BA is or know anything about BA*s dogs; therefore, I have not questioned BA*s pedigrees.

Free advice, stay out of my business or pertaining to my dogs.
**Don*t want to know about your business or dog business. The breeding of Java*s dam has nothing to do with you. I just corrected your errant statement about the breeding of Java*s dam.

You proved nothing. Posting pedigrees from Online Pedigree service which you posted there isn't proving someone wrong.
**The pedigrees came from Michael Martin*s ad*s.

I owned the bitch. BTW for the record, that litter was UKC registered and I still have copy of her pedigree.
You know nothing about the bitch Java.
**I only know Bert did not breed her dam, based on her pedigree.

I like how you tried to switch the heat off yourself.
** ??? I*ve responded line per line, as it related to the breeding of Java*s dam!

I also notice you didn't answer any of my questions, specially about Java.
You can't. You have no clue about my business or my dogs.
**Don*t care to know. Don*t want to know about that end of things.
Just cleared up an incorrect statement you made about the breeder of her dam.
The rest is your ranting.

And the closest you will ever get is with # & $ somewhere in the wide world.
**Like I said, I*m not a dogfighter. Don*t want to be one. Never had the interest.

In fact, it would have been less then three years if he died 1982.
Funny I don't remember ever hearing the name Mike Page around the sport.
**That*s because I*m not involved in that kind of thing. I*m not a dogfighter.

 

See this is what I mean. Who do you think you are commenting anything about me or dogs I have breed, owned or dogs down from my stock?
Retraction? STFU about others who you don't know and most of all, their dogs unless you got a dog or something you want to prove!
You act like you are the only one who knows James. Quit while you are ahead.


You don't want us to get real ugly with remarks about you and your real life and what you have done....

 

That's what I thought. When it appeared in Bloodlines as I knew it did, I know sent and have the issue sent directly to me from UKC. You weren't the breed then. I told it was there because it was my picture.

You all up in my business, you should know right off the top your head big timer.
Look and you might find the issue I told you it was in. Just as I just told you what year Bloodlines of the letter from Clarence is in!

Now see I would never thought of doing that, only a snitch would think of something like that.

Really well I haven't posted my issue of Dog Fancier Magazines back in the late 1800's (started 1891) and in the early 1900's.
For the book parts other then the reprints from Pete Sparks, which I could have gotten the original copies over the years, just was interested in getting them. Same information.
As for the rest, I have every know printing of the books.
More modern book like Jessie Boggs, Mullins, Charlie Maxwell, I know you don't nothing like these.


You don't have no interest before 1988?
Bert Clouse was before 1988.

As I wrote and you haven't answered, How did I come by her? If you talked to the breeder you would have known this because she was why I talked to him again. And it was about her pedigree.
You haven't stated where he was from or where his dogs went when he got out.
Now you had enough to ask someone to find out or haven't because it is now clear by you not answering right away, YOU DIDN'T KNOW!


Then quit dick riding off the breed like a bottom feeder or blood sucker to the breed.
**Yikes! Down boy!

Do something to try to improve the breed and live in the past from era you weren't around in!
**Correct facts are important.

Mike, come on. I know Michael had the dogs before Bert died.
**Martin had does down from Cid through Jean before he got his dogs from Bert.
He didn*t have pure Clouse dogs until Bert passed away.
In fact, the only reason Jerri let the dogs go to Michael was because he produced a hand written letter from Bert, agreeing to sell him the dogs.

My friend BA has done more and been in these dogs longer then you ever thought of. You question BA pedigrees, well kiss my ass, everyone is wrong but you...
**I don*t know who BA is or know anything about BA*s dogs; therefore, I have not questioned BA*s pedigrees.

Free advice, stay out of my business or pertaining to my dogs.
**Don*t want to know about your business or dog business. The breeding of Java*s dam has nothing to do with you. I just corrected your errant statement about the breeding of Java*s dam.

You proved nothing. Posting pedigrees from Online Pedigree service which you posted there isn't proving someone wrong.
**The pedigrees came from Michael Martin*s ad*s.

I owned the bitch. BTW for the record, that litter was UKC registered and I still have copy of her pedigree.
You know nothing about the bitch Java.
**I only know Bert did not breed her dam, based on her pedigree.

I like how you tried to switch the heat off yourself.
** ??? I*ve responded line per line, as it related to the breeding of Java*s dam!

I also notice you didn't answer any of my questions, specially about Java.
You can't. You have no clue about my business or my dogs.
**Don*t care to know. Don*t want to know about that end of things.
Just cleared up an incorrect statement you made about the breeder of her dam.
The rest is your ranting.

And the closest you will ever get is with # & $ somewhere in the wide world.
**Like I said, I*m not a dogfighter. Don*t want to be one. Never had the interest.

In fact, it would have been less then three years if he died 1982.
Funny I don't remember ever hearing the name Mike Page around the sport.
**That*s because I*m not involved in that kind of thing. I*m not a dogfighter.[/QUOTE]

 

Mallard give the fuck up. Wtf have you done byt push keys on a keyboard? You dont even own a dog, and how can you not be interested in sport, but want to be all in their business. Whats the point, who cares what someone told you, youre nobody in this game, a pencil pusher stirring up shit about dogs you never saw. Getting quotes from ppl who dont care what they tell you; simply because youre an outsider yo real dogman. You ain't nothin but a reporter so just stay in your lane instead of talking about things you say you dont care about. Get active or shut up.

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

 

I love this to read some of these dogs are in my dogs pedigree, so all this interesting. And excuse my typing im on my phone.

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Put me down yourself, you and me directly.

Yes they are and since you weren't around in those times you should keep your mouth shut other people and their dogs. Talk about what you owned and done. Oh that's right you haven't done anything!

Yes he did. Yes I know he had stock down from Jean Carpenter off Joni, it was from some Red Devil stock.
I could had all that I wanted and I wanted none and BTW those dogs, some came from Bert.

BA is on this forum under BA well known handle. (hint) uses Super Gnat dogs in later years and had others before that. I wouldn't out BA. Once again you prove you have no clue of real dog people and their dogs and how they are bred. You dismissed BA pedigree of a Clouse dog. You really don't know shit.

Java is my business, Mitzie is my business. Remember you were told so you don't have to ask later on why..

LMAFAO @ ur (-?_) Like they don't screw up all the time back then? Clear into the middle 90's they did. Took the Prez of her doing the ad 3 times of mine of Ch. Gambler pedigree correct. I told them if they can't do it right from their own files I wanted my money back. Third time they got it right.


I owned the bitch. BTW for the record, that litter was UKC registered and I still have copy of her pedigree.
You know nothing about the bitch Java.
**I only know Bert did not breed her dam, based on her pedigree.

I like how you tried to switch the heat off yourself.
** ??? I*ve responded line per line, as it related to the breeding of Java*s dam!

I also notice you didn't answer any of my questions, specially about Java.
You can't. You have no clue about my business or my dogs.
**Don*t care to know. Don*t want to know about that end of things.
Just cleared up an incorrect statement you made about the breeder of her dam.
The rest is your ranting.

And the closest you will ever get is with # & $ somewhere in the wide world.
**Like I said, I*m not a dogfighter. Don*t want to be one. Never had the interest.

In fact, it would have been less then three years if he died 1982.
Funny I don't remember ever hearing the name Mike Page around the sport.
**That*s because I*m not involved in that kind of thing. I*m not a dogfighter.[/QUOTE]

 

Is this right because this is whats in my dogs pedigree.
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [530] :: CLOUSE'S STABER (4XW)

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Once again you still don't get it, Bert did breed the mother.
My question to is, what does my dogs business have anything to do with you?
Careful where you stick your nose..

YOU claimed why you called him was to ask about Java. I know you didn't because it hasn't even been 10 years of you knowing I had the bitch!
Now you claimed this and that but nothing about the bitch so how would you know anything about the mother? You also claimed her sire wasn't bred by Bert, now are you admitting you were wrong about him too?

My ranting? you are a clown, you got more bitch drama in you then a 2 dollar whore stripper. Crawfish back down the hole you came out from before I clear up things about you....

Hell I didn't even think you were a dog owner with your broke ass besides anything else.

No lets get the facts straight, the truth as you like to state, why is because you weren't in the dogs. Cleaning dog shit of a pet don't make you a dogman.
Doesn't make you are an expert about anyone's bloodline or this breed.
Just another pet owner like a million others.
Now get lost or respond because you like to have the last word.....B

 

Readers- Hated to post so many times but at the speed I'm running this board freezes up a lot on me.
It appears to have trouble with the entries.

 

Who's on first?..sorry guys couldn't help it...Cary on.

 

LOL LOL just sure you make it home. :lol:

 

...think it's about one guy trying to tell another guy his dog ain't bred this way or that way....and bad mothing his breeding....????...that the general jest..///??????????

 

Yup you got it right.....

 

Pop fly...its going.......going.......gone

 

Once again you still don't get it, Bert did breed the mother.
My question to is, what does my dogs business have anything to do with you?
**You didn*t breed the dog, so I*m not getting into your business.
I*m setting the record straight of a breeding behind the dog that you owned.
Since you didn*t breed Java, you have nothing to do with the breeding of her mother; therefore, I*m not getting into your business.
I simply revealed who bred Java*s dam. That*s it!

YOU claimed why you called him was to ask about Java.
**No, I contacted Michael Martin to get his history with Clouse dogs.
The litter that Java was part of appeared in a 1987 magazine.
The discussion with Mike and I was about his experiences with Clouse dogs.
That*s how I learned Michael bred the dam to Java, as she was part of an advertised litter we discussed. Get it? In fact, we discussed all of his litters.
We talked about the dogs used, the results, the direction he took, why he used one dog over another, etc.
It helped me to better understand the line.
Was a very, very good interview.

Just so that on-lookers know about the type of research I do, have a look at my interview with Don Killen, who owned Killen*s Cid!
Killen's Cid - HEMPHILL DOGS

Now you claimed this and that but nothing about the bitch so how would you know anything about the mother?
**I never said I knew anything about the bitch (Java).
I only know about the mother because Michael told me that he bred her.

You also claimed her sire wasn't bred by Bert, now are you admitting you were wrong about him too?
**I*m not wrong about anything I have stated about the dogs.
Red Bomber was bred by Bert. I wrote within this string of posts that the sire of Java (Red Bomber) was bred by Bert. Here, let me cut and paste that for you:
04-20-2014 05:27 PM #151
“Clouse*s Red Bomber (red with light evidence of brindle), was bred by Bert Clouse and purchased by Michael Martin”.
Who*s wrong Mike?

Hell I didn't even think you were a dog owner with your broke ass besides anything else.
**I am not a dog owner. I just do research.

Put me down yourself, you and me directly.
**I didn*t mean it like that as I *m not a violent person. I meant calm down.

That's what I thought. When it appeared in Bloodlines as I knew it did, I know sent and have the issue sent directly to me from UKC.
You weren't the breed then. I told it was there because it was my picture.
**Whether one purchases a magazine directly from the UKC at the time it was published or purchases it 20 years later, it*s the same unchanged information. The information contained in the magazine has no more or less meaning, as it has the same information page per page, picture per picture, letter for letter.

You all up in my business, you should know right off the top your head big timer.
**I*m not “up in your business” Mike! I*m talking about the pedigree BEHIND a dog that you owned, which has nothing to do with you.
As much as you keep repeating that same business mantra, people are not as stupid as you hope they are and are figuring it out. At least based on the PM*s I*m getting.

Really well I haven't posted my issue of Dog Fancier Magazines back in the late 1800's (started 1891) and in the early 1900's.
**I have them ALL on PDFs.
Anyone want a copy?

For the book parts other then the reprints from Pete Sparks, which
I could have gotten the original copies over the years, just was interested in getting them. Same information.
**You just made my same point about the Bloodlines magazine.
Original or reprint, same information.
Anyone who has it, knows the same as you.
Anyone want a copy?

You don't have no interest before 1988?
Bert Clouse was before 1988.
**I wrote post 1998 Mike. Post means after. Pre means before.

As I wrote and you haven't answered, How did I come by her? If you talked to the breeder you would have known this because she was why I talked to him again. And it was about her pedigree.
**I don*t know how you obtained Java because I didn*t ask about that one, specific dog. I asked about all of his breedings, the dogs he used, the results, the direction he took, why he used one over the other, etc.
Much like my Don Killen interview. Is anyone else not getting this?
You haven't stated where he was from or where his dogs went when he got out.
**I didn*t publish a biography on Mike the person, as he didn*t want the story to be about him. He wanted the story and credit to be about Bert Clouse and his dogs. I interviewed Mike based on his history with Clouse dogs. Bert Sorrells purchased several dogs from Michael. Otter had some as well.

Who do you think you are commenting anything about me or dogs I have breed, owned or dogs down from my stock?
**I*m responding to your remarks as it relates to the dog. I don*t care about your life or your business. You did not breed Java, so the statement I made about Java*s dam is not a reflection on you. Java was not down from your stock and does not appear in your pedigrees. So you see, I have not commented about your stock.

I will cut and paste one of my early posts in this string, so it will be more clear to you. There is no mention of you or your stock.
Read…
04-19-2014 04:24 PM #147
Java was bred by Michael Martin, as was her Dam.

In the end, there is no reasoning or coming to a common understanding.
I cannot define any clearer what I presented, so you get it or you don*t.

Moving on!

 

Typo
I meant to write,
**I wrote post 1988 Mike. Post means after. Pre means before.