Clouse blood

what about Wallaces king Cotton and whats behind him??

 

I believe a couple of ya'll get it by golly ... .. whats interesting is Feeley's dogs had black noses as many times as they didn't. OFRN strains are favorite of mine ... a long time genetic and historic study. The original Irish fighting dog was black nosed, the original pit bull terrier had to have a black nose as well. The mutated red nosed dogs were in Lightners stock before the others and Im talkin as primary of the yard. I come from Irish Choctaw family; my great grand came over with his family from northern Alabama. There were red bulldogs there before the English and Irish. Irish landed a ship around the time thefirst english did rather just before and it shipwrecked which the native americans saved them. Thus how irish and choctaw became intertwined. The Mother country, the mother land.. always feminine was Ireland. The Old country and Old family is referring to old Spaniard decent. Such as last name of SEA as in people of the Sea. Like many aspects of our history as we learned its wrong from misinterpretation and misrepresentation. Just like Jamestown, and early english settlement. Native Americans reported red nosed red dogs used on beasts and in war and for entertainment upon each other from Mexico to Alabama Florida, those dogs were left behind in desotos wake as was the spaniard style in Muskogean tribes. ... Genetics don't lie thats for sure. OH and Wallaces King Cotton, Hahahaha this is primarily COLBY genetics all the way down.. PRIMARILY not all and if you look at a good deal of lightner its Xd imported dogs right off the boat, heavy colby more than others but shipely and others are in Lightner peds. Lightners oldest dogs are named with spanish names or come from spanish named dogs.. He claimed to have red dogs from his family before any other, that would make sense ifyou put the pieces where they fit. YES the old family bulldogs are extinct, BUT NOT.. they live on in our dogs and in the right hands of a breeder you would see OF bulldogs revived. For instance if Banjo was taken to the best Corvino stock in his day by way of Norrod then you would've seen Old family dogs ... right here and now. Also if you look at the best Cardena stuff right now, your looking at Old family black nosed dogs, at their best. The genetic coding is all there. Remember One individual is a representation of 20,000. How far back on a tree or pedigree does that go? All these different strains of dibo all so different all these strains of OFRN similar but all so different. WHY? because of isolation of traits genetic stock and what was kept and inbred or linebred back in. You want an old world dog you gotta breed for it as well as work for it. The Arabian goes back over 2500 yrs, the Highland Cattle of Scottland go back as far; when they arrived on the island.


One of my favorites considered by many to be OF or OFRN is Fitzwaters Goldie.. Matter a fact thats why I made the X 2 yrs ago.

Fitzwater Goldie was the 1 common ancestor in Halls/boudreaux Snooty Sorrells, Lonzo, Hammonds and Heinzl I stacked it all together. Got 3 outstanding red nosed dogs out two black nosed dogs down from black nosed dogs. I seen it as I was studying the pedigrees and dogs offspring and ancestors.. AHA! gathered the dogs and made the breeding.

Id thought about OFRN when I got back into bulldogs. Well.. Itd have to been a Clouse dog and or one of them oldies IM and his folks keep tucked tight. OR not at all. GH said to me, son... I never thought of Clouse as OFRN before but now that you throw it out there like that, it sure could be, depends on whos breedn the dog. SO just my opinion but if you want OFRN clouse is a good start get in contact with IM and you should be able to keep it as true as possible.

 

quite possibly some ancient rome dogs aswell

 

Nice looking dog in colored pic. Do you happen to have a ped?


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I have asked a couple of questions to IM some time ago. Over and over again, just to make clear, WHAT we are talking about.
Old Family Red
Just start there and check IM's next posts, too. #27, #31, ...
First I was wrong calling them just Old Family and mentioning black noses together with Old Family dogs.
I took him serious and accepted his knowledge.
Old Family Reds was a breed of red/red fighting dogs bred in Ireland.
And now I'm wrong again ?
Because you guys are telling there was Old Family dogs of all colors, and the ones popped up in red was called OFR.
Very confusing !
Sorry for my short comeback, won't happen again.

 

Stickler I know u can read a ped..So if your looking at a dogs ped why not just accept him fo what he is? Unless u suspect its hung..Thats all anyone here is trying to tell you.I mean I know you arent a dumbass.

 

I do have a ped; its not clouse.. so I dont want to confuse folks. I posted Fitzwaters Goldie in retrospect to the question or statement that old family dogs were dead. Im sayin their genetics live on. ESPECIALLY IN THOSE dogs bred right and kept tight. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=offspring&dog_id=415973 I like fitzwaters goldie so much I figured if I put those strains I mentioned I'd get a goldie along with other old style bulldogs.. I was correct although I really didnt think they'd breed true. Not the case.. they breed very true, folks just need to pay attention to what they got and keep em all long enough they know what they're keepin. Only them old timers legends done gone by were able to pic a dog up as a whelped pup and do something with em time after time. Those same guys have said theres a world of dogs they produced that didnt make it.

SO.. in retrospect beggin the question... Clouse blood OFRN?? Depends whos hands are on it how your breedin it. IF you want OFRN and you have tight clouse ya really should be lookin up IM or some of that Schumar stuff.. and that would be equivalent of a tater style bred dog today. Probably get some taters. People get to hung up on their own ideology. Just look at the science of it as much as the art of it....

 

Why answer a question about something that no longer exists? Imported Irish Old Family Reds have been extinct for over hundred years? BTW how come people who been in dogs less then a dozen years telling others Feeley dogs weren't from Irish stock? Please if you don't know what you are talking about it is better to have people think you are inept then open your mouth and remove all doubt. Feeley had Shipley dogs in them. He was very know importer of the dogs from Ireland. Bruce's Jerry known to be the heaviest of the imported Old Family Red blood of his era. Many of Feeley's dogs were red nose.

 

Do you have any idea what constitutes a bloodline? Why you wouldn't call them Clouse dogs but Norrod dogs? How many times must I go over and over this???? Do you know why they call them a throw back when you produce a certain dog? And for the final time, there is no such thing as a pure OFRN dog. They all have black nose SOMEWHERE in their pedigree. Some just closer then others. When Old Family Reds came to this country they were crossed to other breeds of fighting dogs from Europe to produce the American Pit Bull Terrier. These dogs were of different colors: Click on Legend to return to Website. Email before registering. Click here x to return to :: View topic - Heritage Reference of the American Pit Bull Terrier.

 

I don't understand the need for people to discuss something have no experience or knowledge with! Why they try this is to build up their own prestige as a dog person. Some are so clouded with their own BS no one can reach their sense to comprehend the truth.

 

I agree with you on everything you said unless you pointing your finger at me; what I stated is just what you did about Feeley, he had shipely dogs. One difference, I said feeley had as many black nosed dogs as he did red nosed. You said this in entirely different language to imply theyre mostly red nosed. (NOW that is something I presume LOL JK withya) I've been in bulldogs for 15yrs not the 45 alot you ol timers have. HOWEVER What you see is what you get. I do not presume to know anything and I add IMO thats states is just that. Yes I've done all the book work, and leg work to answer the question I had. I've tried to prove myself wrong through breeding and they were right on. So my understanding of bulldog traits and where they come from cannot be that far off. Though I know it ain't perfect my no means.

what you just stated just underlines what I've been saying.. ANyone got a solid true clouse dog and they X with your stock or another of near equivalence and BAM ... you of all people would recognize an oldie that popped out of such a x. Im speaking on genetics and ability to keep genetics alive. You have ancestors from 100yrs ago shining through you yourself. You gonna tell me you don't have a grand that live to be 88-100 or so??? 100yrs aint shit but a blink. If my great grand had any of the dogs his brother did, I'd have those dogs today no doubt.. but I don't cause it didnt happen that way. Either way You .. Colby... Boudreaux/Cardena .. Hammonds... all have families of dogs that just emanate the old world genes inwhich they harbor. For instance EVERYTHING DIBO is primarily OF genetics. SO any Colby xs usually done pretty good. If you X any OFRN you should just get as good or better cause you should get Old Family traits poppin back up in your face if you use the best clouse and the best of your stock. Just like if back when he was around Banjo X with your old stuff would've produced an old family bulldog. The math and the genetic traits and ability is all there.... Its no different than breeding horses only with dogs YOU GET WHOLE LITTERS and which is easier through time to weed out the variables. If they can say there are Arabians today that are just as they were almost 4k yrs ago then you gotta understand that your family of dogs along with others are just as valuable to the APBT strain of bulldog family tree. ONE individual is representation for 20,000+ ancesters, 7 gen is 756 ancetors. so ... how many yrs do you think that goes back when cleary you show traits of your great grand of one or the other or all 4. So please don't misquote me or misrepresent what Im saying.

 

And Colby had Galtie imported Irish dog. So does that his OFRN today? No and the same as Shipley, he had a few black nose dogs but what Con Feeley had was from the Irish stock. As you know I finally, after many years of looking obtain a lot of information of dogmen from the late 1800's and the turn of the 20th century. You would be surprised what you will learn of which is totally different then how people try to portray the dogs today.

 

One day when we both have a day to kill Ima have to dail them #'s.. as it is, I've been lazy and chatting this morning I gotta get out with the hounds myself. The day sure goes by.

 

You can call again any time you want. Oh you thought I didn't know your typing tales? :lol:

 

Stickler this post almost got past me, I guess I'm not as sharp as I used to be! The example of Frisco dogs not being called Patrick dogs is no different why dogs bred like Black Widow can't be called the 1/4 that's not OFRN blood that's in her. If Black Widow had a red nose and owned by let's say Wilder would that change her DNA or would it be acceptable to call Widow an OFRN dog?

BTW the pedigree of Mr Stabber Clouse is INCORRECT! The person who posted that pedigree has an ax to grind with a certain breeder and after I post the correct pedigree.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=442980

Make no mistake this is the CORRECT pedigree as told by the breeder! The breeder of Mr Stabber Clouse has said many times the best dog he has ever owned or bred is this dog which chapped the hide of the poster of the INCORRECT pedigree.

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=224289

JS has owned more KZB dogs second only to KZB himself. JS has owned many Heinzl dogs from the three Heinzl breeders who got their dogs directly from Heinzl. JS was an original member of the OFBA and has bred dogs for 30 years and one of his first breedings is in a 1984 ADBA Gazette.

BTW if Mr Stabber Clouse had a red nose and the INCORRECT pedigree YES he could be registered as an OFRN dog with the OFRN Registry because of MOSTLY his OFRN genetic makeup!

 

^^^ I sure like that stabber clouse dog

@ IM.. Hahahaha.. .. fir sure.

 

I agree 100%...genetics can't lie, people do or at best are honestly delusional lol.

 

Ok thanks for finally answering my question. " BTW if Mr Stabber Clouse had a red nose and the INCORRECT pedigree YES he could be registered as an OFRN dog with the OFRN Registry because of MOSTLY his OFRN genetic makeup!"

Is the most important fact the "red nose" or the genetic make when registering with OFRNR ?

 

^^^^^^It might help if you went to the website and read it:
http://ofrnr.com/OFRNR_Registration_Information.html

 

Had not read that before.clears up a lot of questions folks may have. thanks for adding that. hope all is well with u and the family.