Breeding outside of the APBT?

Would just like opinions about breeding the APBT with other breeds..
Would you do it, if so, why?
If not, please tell why too....

I am not doing this folks, I am simply asking what your insight is on it..
thought it would be a good debate thread about our breed, to see what people think is right and wrong and why.......

 

i would not do it as there is no improving on the breed we have already IMO. it has been done obviously with all the mutt dogs being passed off as APBT now days. OBVIOUSLY it has been nothing but disaster for our breed. if someone were to take 15 generations of what they are doing, culling it hard as they go, keeping everything they produce, to try to accomplish a goal they have that may be another story. the people that would go that far with it are few and far between though IMO. i just got into an argument with some goofass the other night about all the new designer breeds. he approached me and asked and got offeneded when i told him my thoughts....which weren't good btw. turns out he's a golden-doodle breeder. he knew i was a dog fancier and show my dogs and such that is why he asked me. sooooooooo i guess what i'm saying is i see no difference between a golden-doodle and a patter-bull.

 

I currently am, a waiting a bitch to come into heat to breed with my small terrier. The reason I'm doing this breeding is to have the best of both worlds. I have had pit bull dogs for over half of my life, but at one point was forced to sell them, due to home owners insurance. At that point, I started looking for something to replace them, I investigated several different breeds of dogs. I settled on small hunting terriers, and have been happy for the most part. However nothing can really replace a good bulldog, so my quest continues to the next level to attain as many of the pit bulls great attributes in the smaller more socialbly acceptable body of a terrier. I have stated before that I think the sheer size of most modern day pit bulls makes them appear menacing, whereas a 20 lb dog don't look so intimadating. Now if someone was to do this and call the results a pit bull it would be a farce, and that is not my intention. I plan on keeping the whole litter and going from there. Remember everyones dogs come from somewhere, and as for the genetic make-up of modern pit bulls none of us were there, so we don't know for sure. I however think I'm only doing what our ancestors did when they found they didn't have what they needed they bred for it. There it is, fire away, LOL! Mouser

 

I don't have any qualms with anyone having a different opinion than me, but I feel I'm entitled to one myself, Do you believe that the pit bull has always been, or that they were a result of like minded people breeding to produce them? Do you test your dogs? If so how, and are they what they were started out to be? The obvious anwser is no, legally no one can test their dogs, other than weight pull, and that won't tell you whats in their heart. Truthfully only lawbreakers have true game bred dogs. How many yrs of breeding pure breed show dogs will it take to change the breed to Am staffs? Just a little food for thought. Mouser

 

The sad thing is Mouser, that you still plan on calling them "pit bulls" or at least that's the impression I've gathered from your previous posts. Basically, you are doing nothing more than trying to get into the "rare" market to peddle goods. You're damn right I disapprove.

 

i would hardly call 2-3 hundred years worth of breeding one breed vs you breed a single litter comparable. that was the point i was trying to make in my first post. you have absolutely no clue what you are going to come out with. also you have no clue what they are going to produce and so on. that's the point you are obviously overlooking. compare yourself to old time breeders....lol

now how the hell testing dogs got brought into this is completely off the wall to me. wtf?? that has absolutely nothing to do with the OP topic.

 

Just what previous post are you talking about? Because I differ with most on the make-up of pit bulls doesn't mean that I would add any foreign blood and call them full blooded "Now if someone was to do this and call the results a pit bull it would be a farce, and that is not my intention." I think you need to re-read my post. Mouser

 

You are missing my point, and didn't anwser any of my questions. Do you think the pit bull has always been? Obviously not, they were breed from something. That means someone started up a breeding program. The testing question, has everything to do with it. You are saying that you should only breed pit bull to pit bull to keep producing pit bulls, I agree you can't breed pit bulls to poodles and get pit bulls, but if your breeding untested show dogs, after a while you will not have pit bulls, but just a shell of the former dog. Does that make sense to you? You got your dogs from someone, breeding for God only knows what reason, money, show dogs, preservation of true game dogs? I looked through your gallery, nice looking dogs, so do you ever plan on breeding them? If you should decide too, what will be your criteria? How will you test them? If you don't, when they die and you try to buy more, will you buy from someone that game tested them the old way to make sure that they are the real deal? I'm just saying we are all hypocrites if we say one thing and do another. I have thought about this very thing for a long time, and have finally come to grips with it, I'm not going to game test my dogs, and I'm truly concerned that there will not be any pit bull dogs in 10 yrs. I'm planning for the future to make a dog that looks and acts like a pit bull, but in a smaller package. Hopefully they will not out-law pit bulls, and I'm sure even if they do some good ole boys will keep what they have hide away and pure, my hats off to them, but it won't be me doing it. I have a family to think about first, dogs are just something I love and will always have. Who knows maybe in twenty yrs from now you will look me, up and try to get one of mine, LOL!

 

If they outlaw the APBT, then you bet your last dollar they take all of the APBT likes with it...
They are already doing that, BSL includes all PIT BULL TYPES!

When folks start breeding out to other breeds there eventually wont be any APBT's left...that you are right about!

 

I am not rying to be smart with you,but a real question.Do you really think making them smaller will change anything?.With insurance and landlords,the size of the pit bull is rarely the reason for not wanting them.I'ts their supposed temperment,which if bred to terriers is only going to strengthen alot of traits that allready exsist in American Pit Bull TERRIERS.

 

Well I guess time will tell, I hope it never happens. I have a hard time seeing them being too worried about 20 lb. dogs. I can name you a number of small breeds that appearance wise look similar to pit bulls, head size being the main difference. Rat terrier, manchester terrier, fiest, JRT's, patterdales... and the list goes on. They are not exactly what I'm looking for, so I'm breeding my own, I don't see what has you all rattled so bad. None of you have anwsered my questions about your personal dogs, do any of you test your dogs in the old ways, or have bought from people that do, I don't really expect any of you to anwser that, but to only think about the point I'm making. If your not than your dogs are no more pit bull than an Am Staff. I have enjoyed this and look forward to seeing more of your post, but I seriously doubt that any of us will be changing our minds soon. However I do know this one thing theres only one way to really know what you have, and 99.9% of us will never find out. Mouser

 

Well I do think it will make a difference, as I said earlier, but some I guess didn't get it, because I wasn't clear enough, I'm not going to be calling my dogs pit bulls. If I don't tell people what they are, and they are ALOT SMALLER than your average pit bull why would people fear them. The temperment is all to do with the parents that are used, and I think that I have some very good dogs with nice temperments. I can not tell you the number of times when I lived in the city, that while walking one of my pits, ()with out cropped ears) that people would fawn all over them and ask what are they? Only when told would they back up with fear. Pit bulls are not supposed to have an aggresive temperment towards people, and neither are true working terriers. Mouser

 

Ask yourself this question, out of the thousands of people who are crossing apbt's with other breeds, just how many of them are willing to spend the years, money and outright dedication to produce a well bred dog. How many of these people are going to stick with their program through thick and thin, cull when it needs to be done. How many of these people are willing to accept all the criticism and learn from it rather than say that they are being "treated unfairly". It's all a joke. These people are a joke. The APBT is what it is. You know what really is a farce, the same people who create these designer dogs and then have the guts to say their end result is better than the original. Or better yet, they deny that their dogs have any APBT blood in them (ie. some Am Bulldog breeders don't want to accept the fact that their breed has a heavy dose of APBT in it). I'm not knocking Am Bulldogs, I happen to like them, just makes me roll my eyes when I hear some people make statements like that. It would be far better for everyone if we all just worked to improve what is already there, rather than add to the problem. JMHO.

 

just out of curiosity,what is the terrier you are wanting to breed to?What are you hoping for in regards to the offspring ,what traits of pit bulls are you wanting?

 

No I would not...there's already too much controversy and angst over the "TRUE" APBT as it is- why muddy the waters anymore? That's just my personal opinion...plus I've just come to look at it as taboo- ESPECIALLY with any breeds that have any type of HA at all. A solid minded animal such as the "true" APBT need not be tinkered with.

 

I'm glad that you think it's funny, however I don't view myself as a joke, just an average joe that has a love of dogs. I have already said you can't improve on pit bulls for what they were bred for, but I'm not a dog fighter, are you? No, don't anwser that. What difference does it make to you if the guys with Am bulldogs deny the APBT blood in them? Anyone familiar with the breed can see it, they are just trying to avoid trouble. Are you one of them people that would like to see them loose their dogs if you end up loosing yours? I hope not, as you said you admire Am Bulldogs. I don't fault anyone for trying to keep what they love, and I'm not asking any of you that love what you have to come buy something from me, I don't have anything to sell. There will always be purist, I'm thankful for them, but most are not, purist. If so many of you that are purist would push for new laws allowing dog fighting to be legalized maybe true pit bulls would be preserved. You do know it's not illegal to have ideals different, even if it's different from the masses or the govt.

 

90% of this babble has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. why and how i breed or don't breed my dogs has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. testing APBT's has NOTHING to do with the topic at hand. yet you still so gracefully dance around the question i posed which is, are you going to keep 15-20 generations of your "new breed" of dog to cull out the bad traits and strengthen the good? as someone else said, are you going to stick it out through thick and thin? sounds to me like you stepped into a big pile of shit and now you seem to want to divert the attention from YOUR post about crossing your dog. i'm not the one here that said i was going to cross my dog with another breed so why you are questioning any of my breeding or non-breeding motives is quite silly. i think it's transparently clear that you think "just pop out a litter and wham....new breed of dog!" well sunshine i hate to tell you, but that is not the way it works. then you want to bring up people who created the APBT. you ask the silly question of "isn't it a breed mixed" well hell yeah it is and we all know that! DUH! that is why i also stated earlier that the APBT has been breed for well over 200 years. i would say it's safe to assume that makes it a breed of it's own now. now your patter-bull cross who you've already said you would "farm" some out. wtf? IMO you are a destructive force in the APBT breed! you have no clue as to what you are doing or what your ultimate goals are. you think you can just shoot out this new breed in a matter of letting 2 dogs fuck. well.........as i said before, your patter-bulls will be no different than the golden-doodle, or the cocker-hauhua!

 

Simple request here....
Can we please keep the dog fighting comments to ourselves, as it has nothing to do with the OP and is illegal? I would like for this thread to stay open....
Thank you kindly!

 

You have some temper issues, LOL! I'm going to anwser you question as honest as I can, I don't know what I will do? Do you? I guess I struck a nerve with you or something causing the undue use of profanities I have looked my post over and don't see where I have been malious, just asking the same kind of questions that you all are asking. As is being an American, we still have the rights to do pretty much as we please, and I plan on doing that. I beleive that dogs are dogs, not people, they are property, and we have the right to do with them as we please. I have always treated all of my dogs with the utmost respect, and will continue to do so, believing that they are property convinces me, that as long as I'm not hurting another person or their property I can do as I please. Do you feel differently? One last thing, the talk about testing that you call babble says it all for me, if you ever do breed your dogs, they will be untested, producing pups that more than likely will never be tested, and so it goes...... Mouser

 

I asked nicely that this be left out....NO THEY WILL NOT BE TESTED....WE ARE IN THE USA...IT IS ILLEGAL....unless you fel you have the right to do it anyway?
Please refrain from this issue.....