Blue Paul Terrier

Not an American Pit Bull Terrier I know, but does anyone really know anything about the Blue Paul Terrier, who seems to have been around in America and Scottland in 1770. Is it extinct or just become part of modern dogs? Does it contribute to the blue nose dogs?

 

From what I have read they were very game dogs and used in their homeland to him Wild Haggis!

 

They live on in our modern dogs because they were bred in and crossed in but in the pure form or pure strains of blue paul fighting dogs are extinct.

 

...were they used to catch "wild haggis"...???????..lol...lol...lol...

 

The blue paul was the nane given to the bulldog in Scotland it was not another breed it was just another family of bulldogs.
England and Ireland and SCotland all had them but idiots think the blue paul was another breed lol.
Many countries had them and had different names on them for instance the dog that was responsible for creating the dogo the one they talk about as being so aggressive males would rather fight females than mate was also just Argentina's own family of bulldog again NOT another breed.

The trouble is all the people writing the history on these dogs or breeds in general are clueless morons if you listen to them you might believe that the apbt is infact a cross of a bulldog and terrier which anyone with a brain should realize you won't improve a bulldog by breeding a terrier to it.They were bred to terriers but it was to improve the terrier not the other way around.

The apbt is the original bulldog also known as many other names in different countries such as the blue paul.

These delusional show breeders genuinely believe that the English bulldog the deformed pug cross used to fight other dogs and catch bulls and all the people with that breed buy into it and it gets talked about and more and more write about it and it becomes classed as truth to those who don't know.

The history of the apbt has been written mainly by show morons or people who write dog books who only have a very limited understanding dogs if any most cases the books are crude copy and paste jobs of other peoples writings but yet again people buy into it.

The worst case of common misconception is that the apbt is from a bulldog terrier cross the truth is the apbt is the pure original bulldog and the Bull terrier is from a bulldog terrier cross.
That's where these idiots have their wires crossed.They think the bull terrier was some ferocious fighting dog when it was only ever a show dog.

 

REALISTIC you come off sounding like such a realistic AZZ......!

 

If a MOD can shut this thread down,(theirs already a blue paul thread), i will answer the questions of the Blue Pauls origin on the "APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire Bull Teriers" thread.

 

The trouble with saying that our bulldogs decend from anything other than bulldogs is just speculation.Some rightfully so.I like to think that our bulldogs were from a mollasser type ,which are bigger dogs right?How did they get smaller and faster?Yes the almighty terrier.A big dog can only be so game,true terriers are game to the core...
Blue pauls,red smut and the old black HENRY dogs are all types of bulldogs probably from the mollasser type...

THE TROUBLE WITH BULLDOGMEN IS THEY BELIEVE BREEDING BULLDOGS TO TERRIERS WAS TO IMPROVE THIER GAMENESS...GTFOH...
Bulldogs might of added mouth and structure to a terrier,but it would take to many generations to get them small enough or spannable to enter a foxhole...
On the other hand bringing the size down,the speed up of bulldogs only made them better as history proves...
Bulldogs are a TYPE,not a breed as we cornered ourselves into thinking...
Alot of the first imports to the u.s. were fairly small and had terrier features...
Has any one noticed the size shape of the snout on our differnt dogs.Some lean moe towards a bulldog with the flatter round face while others extremes resemble almost a greyhound long skinny muzzle...
I noticed the ones that lean more toward a bulldog are more lazy,while the greyhound type are high strung...
The bulldogs can bite,while the greyhounds cant...The ones that can bite usually lack gameness...
I noticed this in quite a few differnt lines,sometimes in the same line...
I think the facial features as well as the overall confirmation is crucial for ballance...
You dont have to agree with me, just agree not to agree with valid counter points...
OPEN FOR DEBATE....signed...anthroBULLDOGology...
"The BIGGER the dog,the smaller the HEART..."Rev.H.Heinzel

 

Sorry I started this thread as I though it was not going to get a response in my previous thread. I laugh when people say the APBT was a pure bulldog and not a mix with a terrier. Look at a true APBT and you can see that they differ strongly to the much heavier bulldogs. Terriers greatly improved the bulldog! How can a bulldog improve a terrier, who's true purpose is to go to ground, a bulldog only makes them to big for this. People often forget what to be a terrier means! Is an Airedale, black Russian or Boston a terrier - no!

Anyone who has watched a terrier work would know they are extremely game dogs with no fear of death or injury. Even terriers bred for show possess this gameness to some degree, which is more than can be said for the majority of bulldog breeds, even their so called 'working' types, which many I might add have never been worked and is simply a tool to sell them to people who won't work them anyway.

 

JBL.......... you breed any game dog to the best working terrier ,,,you will get curs ,,,,and it is the same now as it was back then,,,, the first two prints ware done at the time of Bull baiting ,,,, by a well know artist...........blow the photo up and have a look ... the third print, came in to existence after the introduction of pug blood,,for dog showing ,,,, rule one when breeding ,,,was to get game dogs ,,,,

 

I'm not saying pit bull terriers don't look like the original bulldog. But I am saying they carry terrier blood. The American bulldog from the south is the bulldog in its original form, although the true history of these dogs seems unknown as they were only recently revived.

Crosses between bulldogs and terriers seem well documented.

Whenever a new breed is created by crossing different types of dog, does it not start life as a cur before a breed is established?

 

I'm not saying American pit bull terriers don't look like the original bulldog. I am saying American pit bull terriers have terrier blood in them. The American bulldog might be the original bulldog, but they have only recently been revived and I'm sure the American pit bull terrier probably helped increase their numbers. At one point the North had Yankee terriers and the south American pit bulldogs. Both had probably crossed paths and bred somewhere along the line. If not of the same breed!

Got nothing against bulldogs, trust me, just that the terrier blood in pit bulls is important and a big part of their history.

The just for show, working type bulldogs I was referring to are Olde Boston Bulldogge, Banter Bulldogge, Dorset Olde Tyme Bulldogge and the like. Bulldogs that might look like the original bulldog / types of bulldog, but have probably never been proven as workers and have their ferocity bred out of them. Terriers on the other hand are often still bred for purpose. Oh and most these bulldogs have pit bull terrier blood in them.

 

American Bulldogs ware a made up breed in the late 1950s 1960s,,, from large APBTs and other breeds ,,, the print I posted is the original Bulldog

 

You would be surprised at what all is in some these bloodlines..Simply some men did anything they thought would give them a edge over the competition.Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.

 

Yes the print you posted is the original bulldog. They are extinct. American pit bull terriers look like the Old english bulldog but it's crossing with the terrier was well documented.

 

True. Some guys even mixed their dogs with greyhounds. They basically used what worked and what worked well was bred from.

 

if you don't believe other breeds are in the mix then tell me why some bulldogs will bay ? Lol

 

what type of bulldogs...? I have APBT over 30 years ,,,never had one bay ,,,bay at what ,,,? even if they did ,,,how do you know they did not all ways bay,,,?

 

Where is it well documented ...? maybe in the mid 1800 ,,,but all to do with Bull terriers ...you think the whit bullterrier is a mix of the modern type bulldog ,,,?

 

wel said bama, they were always a mixed blood.
Now a days people actualy believe that al those dogs came from the islands LOL
Offcourse those dogs had a solid impact in to the heratige of the apbt but other dogs were involved in breeding the apbt.
The dogs that were already in the states before 1890 didn't just came from britain, they came from spain/holland/germany etc.
I know for a fact that the mainland EU had molloser type dogs and bulldogs before the brits ever got them.
It cracks me up that some do believe they have the 'original bulldog' in modern days apbt.
If so, how come that the dogs that had such a impact on the apbt like pilot and crib were al in the 30 lbs.
That doesn't sound like a 'bulldog' to me.
I have 26/28 lbs dogs and they are game but don't stand a change against a full grown bull.
I agree with what Iron Mike has posted.

Heritage Reference of the American Pit Bull Terrier.

Understanding where the different fighting dogs came from,
will help explain the typical (Type) of the APBT is suppose to look like.

I have wrote the difference in other breeds compared to the APBT,
which included their size, to their conformation differences and
how they are traditionally suppose to look for each breed.

For the APBT you have to look at the difference of the main well known foundation dogs to understand the color heritage.

The Staffords from Staffordshire England was a black nose dog which was more common in color of cow patch, white with black brindle patches.
Not often of solid background colors.
One of the more known colors of brindle, of a solid color background, was a brownish color,
later years referred to as the Staff brindle.

From Scotland came the Blue Pauls, Blue Pols, Blue Paulies.
These dogs were mainly blue brindle and white with a blue colored nose.
In later years, with the popularity of this color, this strain started appearing in the dogs with a solid blue coat.

From Ireland came, the most famous of all the known fighting breeds to help create the APBT,
the Old Family Reds.
These dogs came in the color of red, red and white with red noses.
The color of both the nose and the coat was of a dark red, liver in color or copper red like a penny.

Black and Tan breed of fighting bulldogs were believed to trace back into the Germanic Mastiff.
Many were brought over by immigrants from Holland, Hungary, Austria, Germany, etc.

From France came the Buckskin Fighting Dogs,
whose heritage appearance was close to the French Mastiff type.
Often known to be on the larger size compared to the other foundation dogs of the APBT.

The last colors' heritage was vast, from many known locations, believed to be their heritage.
Robert F. Lemm wrote in his book "Seen through the Eyes of the Millmaker" the black and brindle dogs mostly came from the mountains of Spain and Italy.
Another black nose breed.

With so many of the Americans who are made up with Spanish and Italian descent,
it would be hard to believe these countries had no influence in making up the APBT in this era.

Their known history of the game Spanish Bulldog used around the sport of Bull Fighting and the Italian Canine Gladiators used in the coliseums,
would explain where the main part of the color of black and brindle dogs originated.

Any other color then the ones mentioned are unexplainable,
unless it is from breed-crossing from other known breeds of today,
thus making those dogs' heritage not of the traditional APBT.

The common mistake, in explaination,
is due from a well known story of one of the most famous dog men in history.
His story is flawed because of being bias to his own heritage.
In writing this story, he excluded all the other known foundation breeds which help create the APBT.

In his story he writes the APBT was created by crossing the English Bulldog
to the now extinct English White Terrier.
In his bias belief, he wanted other owners to believe,
the APBT was created the same way the English Bull Terrier was created.

Over time, the variance in colors of the APBT, has proven his belief of the creation of the APBT to be wrong.