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Black dogs...

Discussion in 'Photography, Artwork & Videos' started by Irish Pitbull, Dec 5, 2010.

  1. palooka

    palooka Premium Member Premium Member

    646495.jpg 646571.jpg
    two nice half brothers
     
    Andre, SMD760, RawGame and 6 others like this.
  2. palooka

    palooka Premium Member Premium Member

    [​IMG]
    a real strong vili mayday bitch pup that i'm liking a lot
     
    SMD760, AGK and Red 73 like this.
  3. Red 73

    Red 73 Big Dog

    Lil Tip is growing up! 6 months old now 20190409_181218.jpg
     
  4. palooka

    palooka Premium Member Premium Member

    [​IMG]
    a good looking big'un
     
    KDW, Red 73, SMD760 and 1 other person like this.
  5. Andre

    Andre Pup

    Where did black dogs come from? All the original stock was white and tan, white and brinlde, etc.
    Also, many people say black dog strains can be curs or not the best stock.
    How true is that?
     
  6. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    Brindle can also throw black dogs. Genetics and selective breeding is a very in depth conversation. I would start here to answer that question.

    The Brindle Gene

    Brindle is one of the recessive geneson the K locus. There are three K locus genes - K (dominant black, sometimes written as KB), kbr(brindle) and k (non-solid black - allows A locus to be expressed). K is the top dominant and k is the bottom recessive. kbr sits between the two. It is entirely dominated by K (so just one K allele will stop brindle from being expressed), but is dominant over k, so a brindle dog can have the genotype kbrkbr or kbrk.

    A dog with one or two kbr alleles will express whichever alleles it has on the A locus, but any and all phaeomelanin (red) in the coat will be brindled. This means that the extent of the brindling on the coat depends on the A locus. The following list shows how the different A locus genes affect the appearance of brindle.

    Brindle + AyAy (sable) - dog will be solid brindle (possibly with darker areas on the back and head where the tipping on the sable would be)

    Brindle + atat (tan points) - dog will be black (or liver/blue/isabella) with brindle points

    Brindle + awaw (agouti/wolf grey) - effect on dog is unknown. Would most likely appear to have brindle points, or brindle may not appear at all

    Brindle + aa (recessive black) - dog will be solid black, liver, blue or isabella (recessive black does not allow the production of phaeomelanin in the coat)

    Brindle typically appears as black stripes on a red base. The stripes are eumelanin and the base is phaeomelanin, so the appearance of those pigments can be changed by any of the genes which usually affect them.
    - Eumelanin (the pigment making up the stripes) can be affected by: merle (and harlequin), liver, dilution, greying, and recessive red.
    - Phaeomelanin (the pigment making up the base) can be affected by: Intensity locus.
    And of course, white markings and ticking can occur on any brindle dog.

    [​IMG]

    Recent research into brindle has caused a stir by apparently showing some brindles are genetically dominant black, prompting theories regarding other possible genes or modifiers that may be responsible for the pattern in some breeds. However, brindle is notoriously difficult to detect through testing and there are currently no commercially-available tests for the allele. Most brindles test as k (non-black) through standard tests, however slight variation in the allele between breeds could account for it sometimes testing as K (dominant black), as per the study. As the testing method used was not able to detect brindle at all, the results are not as significant as they at first appear.
     
  7. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    Black dogs are curs being true is like saying Floyd B bred poodles. I've seen my fair share of black dogs that will punch that clock all night long if need be but usually it won't be that long before the other ones in hypovolemic shock from the devastating mouths some of them will have. Not that color has any infulance on mouth.
    Color IMO is pretty irrelevant in the working end of things. Unless we're talking blues and merles or any other color that isn't in the standard of the breed. Lol then I'm betting on the other dog.
     
    BronerFan, Blackpoison and david63 like this.
  8. Andre

    Andre Pup

    Definitely, I don't doubt that at all. I always thought black dogs look great and I know many can go.
    But some people say that the actual bloodlines that produce blacks, have a higher percentage of curs. That's not my belief though, just something I heard more recently. I forgot who said that though(it was a couple of dogmen, maybe just their own psuedo-science.).
    I agree though, I could never take a blue or merle dog seriously as far as the game goes.
    If I were to choose a pup, using methods that I have learned over the years... If a black pup was what I was looking for, I'd pick them up in a heart beat.
     
  9. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    I think there has been enough black dogs out there that have proved that thought process wrong. I couldn't put a number or percentage on it but black dogs cur just as much as reds, brindles, tans etc. Color and gameness have nothing to do with each other.
     
    BronerFan likes this.
  10. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog


    That's the old "15 min chainsaw" eli stereotype put off on every black dog.

    Sort of like the old "red boy dogs cant bite through a wet paper bag"... lol.

    Color is a long way from mouth and heart.

    Unless your old earnie hollingsworth... then of course all black dogs are curs and his all red all game litters were "proof" lol
     
  11. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Staff Member

    That's who it was. I could not remember who I heard used to say that. Been looking all over for that.
     
    Andre and Holocaust like this.
  12. stickler

    stickler Big Dog

    Holy ... I can't even try to answer ... don't wanna start a war ... :D
    It's starting with genetics, of course ... and goes back to Bulldogs and Terriers ... it's endless ... ;)

    Do a search with your question. Black ... red ...
    You can also search for breeders names, who prefered one of those colors more than the other one .. if that ...
    Or search dogs ... like Bullyson ...
    Good luck ! :)) Your question is probably the most debated question here on the board.
    Uploads are bad quality. Save and scroll ... Basic genetics 01.JPG Basic genetics 02.JPG
     
    david63 likes this.
  13. stickler

    stickler Big Dog

    Maybe not in the end, but maybe in the beginning ?
    I also would not go that far. For me color is just a way to see from where the wind maybe is blowing ... :-?

    Can't keep my 2 fingers under control ...
    The following is just fiction and nobody should take this to serious ...
    Well, I'm a sick freak, so let's play ...

    The OFRs (I'm not talking about OFRNs here ... not yet) were known for gameness (and for their color, too ?).
    Almost sounds like no curs at all. Just like chicken and pigeons ... game produces game ...
    And through genetics we learned that red x red can only produce red.
    If you cross a red dog with a 'pure' black (BB), then the offspring will be black and only black (ok, maybe brindle, too).
    What about the 'game-part' that is coming through the reds ? And wth are the curs coming from ? :-? :D
    1+1= ?
    What can happen with the black F1 dogs ?
    When bred back to black (BB), like to the sire, you can only get black dogs again and again and again ...
    All of the black F1 dogs are Br (and not BB). So a bro x sis is Br x Br. This will produce black (BB and Br) and red (rr).
    Breeding the F1 back to red (dam), then this will produce black (Br) or red (rr).
    Black is always dominant, red is recessive. If Black is around, red is always hiding. Red only comes up, if black is not on board.
    ... in slim words ... bla ... bla ... sense !?
    :-S#:-S
     
  14. Holocaust

    Holocaust Match dog


    My best friend ever earnest hollingsworth (sarcasm)said a lot of outlandish things. But his production record speaks for itself. .
     
    AGK likes this.
  15. Andre

    Andre Pup

    A lot of interesting responses. I never interpreted it literally, I was just wondering why was it even said. I had heard about Redboy dogs not being hard biters as well.
    I guess that's why there are people who like to outcross, stating things like they want more mouth or more gameness in their blood.
    Im gonna have to read those scanned articles 2-3 times to fully comprehend(my brain functions that way)
     
  16. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. Retired Historican

    Game and cur you´ll see in any color.
    No color have the monopoly of being the best of the rest.
     
    c_note, stickler, AGK and 1 other person like this.
  17. david63

    david63 CH Dog

    Believe me Redboy Dogs can Bits too.
     
    stickler likes this.

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