black angel dogs

LOL, I've heard the same before. Carver took alot with him when he went to the grave. Comes back to a question I posed about hanging papers on good dogs. Atleast Carvers pedigrees didnt list 4 generations of the same father son inbred crap lol. But, maybe the reason is the obvious thing to me. Most who bought bulldogs back then did so with intent of testing them, as compared to a majority of people these days that want the pretty dog with the spectacular pedigree. With that said, dogmen understood, if its super inbred RUN AWAY FROM IT!

 

I don't believe HB was off Bullyson x Spook.. She never produced a black pup besides when bred to Rascal I think if her breeding was suspect it was more suspect of her sire.. I tend to believe she is bred as said.. Heard the story bout othe dogs airing jeep pups I don't believe it either.. One of my friends frequently was down there and has many pics of jeep up til his old age and pics of breedings that he did as well.. Sure don't believe Ch gator produced his pups either.. Boomerang dogs and jeep dogs are two different dogs with two different styles.. I ran Jeep stuff for almost 10 years and know where some still at and I work with boil x boomerang blood.. When did Missy come from another litter? I know he won game her 2nd when her leg was broken and then quit shortly her 3rd when she was nought by garner then all of a sudden the banged up Missy was a spotless full of energy dog and beat lord knows who for the mysterious Ch title.. She was always off Bo x HB, nobody knows what dog TG proclaimed her to be..

Never knew outlaw was raised by Ricky I thiught he boutght him after Smith made Ch or GrCh with him.. Also if HH c&h outlaw he deserves some respect as JC gets respect for jeep when all he did was c&h him as JG bought him as a pup.. Thought turtle was owned by Ricky as well as Turtle Jr?

 

Yes I am, nobody has anything to prove their opinion or theory so who is to say I'm wrong. All people have is the word of another man. So i could be right. Not to mention Jeep wasnt a hard dog to recognize, he has pretty clear scaring that proved him different looking than any other dog especially after the Homer show..

HH might be all of those things and if so he is no different than 95% of the men of that era and of this one. Most were bandits, pimps, bootleggers, drug dealers, killers and so on all wrapped in one. So i guess he fit in well..

Oh ok and HH did some handling of Outlaw as well right?

 

I did some fact checking on the "Spook quit is common knowledge" statement. I wondered why neither I nor anyone I know has ever heard that "common knowledge," and the answer is simple. IT ISNT TRUE! I called a friend of mine who happens to be one of the most well known and respected dogmen from the last 35 years, as I knew he would know. His answer went like this;
"Spook went to Clemmons as a pup, but when she came into her first heat, floyd got her back and stuck her to Eli. When he asked Floyd if Spook was tested, Floyd's answer was 'after producing Eli Jr., Bullyson, and Brendy in her first breeding, you would be an idiot to do anything other than breed her'."
When I inquired about the Zebo x HB pups, he laughed and said they didnt die young, Woods (was probably the one who) shot them when they quit!
I think its also worth stating that while Jeep was a great dog, Crenshaw thought Charlie was the better ability box dog.

 

Floyd got her back and stuck her to Eli? That is not entirely true, as the man has said himself to me and to many others he took Spook back there to be bred and he was going to breed to Boze(a dog that FB said many times was his best dog and favorite or one of favorite dogs) but he seen Eli, and wanted to breed to him because he was a beautiful black dog.. That breeding was on Clemmons

Charlie quit to Ace? I know he quit to that Panama Red dog but never knew he quit to Ace as well.. I also heard that Chinaman was off Rascal Jr, but many say that Rascal Jr was dead around time Chinaman was bred.. Shame so many lies and so many untruths from that time.. Bro people have bred dogs and then in turn tested them because a lot of the time men's ego's were bigger than texas.. The HB x Zebo litter was tried twice i believe and the first time if memory serves me correct most of them froze to death and not sure what happened of the 2nd one.. Shame HB died when she did she probably had a good 2 litters left in her at least..

 

Dude, I spoke to a man who, in turn spoke wit Floyd B. 10 years ago about Spook!
If you have any good bulldog books, you most likely have the one my good friend wrote. Its that simple. Why would Floyd lie to him about it? Shit happened decades ago, were you there? Floyd was. HHHuuumm, why is Floyd's name in front of Spooks name on my 6 generation pedigree from the ADBA, answer, he was the breeder! If floyd told you so much "personally," why did you state Spook quit? She was never even looked at! Boze was a good dog, a Floyd may have said he was one of his favorites, but the foundation dog, which I take it was his very favorite, was Blind Billy. Thats common knowledge, just look at how Boze was bred. Brother x half sister off double bred Blind Billy dogs!
Starting to see flaws in you my man. You claim to have been somewhat in a friendly basis with Crenshaw, now with Floyd. Problem what you claim Floyd told you, doesnt match what I know Floyd told my good friend that I have known for 17 years...

 

this is just funny.... you said Floyd told you he bred Spook to Eli, because he was a "beautiful black dog." Yeah thats what made floyd the great breeder that he was. Breeding those "beautiful" dogs lol.

 

I didn't say FB bred him I said Clemmon's bred spook to eli because he was black.. The old man still around go ask him or you can read his tribute in on of those books you are referring to.. He bred to Eli because he was black and that is a fact.. If you dont believe call the old man up yourself and let him tell you. Eli x Spook was done before he was even a winner or a known dog.. What flaws do you see pls tell me? I'm always up for a good convo.. The flaw I seen in you i pointed out.. You tries to say JC bred around Bo and I showed you he didn't then you wanted to tell how JC bred around jeep when I informed that jeep wasn't even hos dog.. You ask why FB name in front of spook it's simple that's the name people put on.. Look at pedigrees on here they say Crwnshaws Ch Jeep but everybody knows that Garret bought and raised Jeep.. The name in front of the ped means nothing.. There are dogs up here that I bred the parents and all and my name not on the ped.. As well as several other people..

 

Heres your problem man, I'm not getting info. from a book. I got my info. from my friend that wrote the book you probably have sitting on your coffee table about bulldogs! He spoke to Floyd directly about Spook, I called him tonight to dis-spell your "common knowledge that spook quit" statement. Maybe I had it wrong, maybe you are green, and you are talking with people who claim to be "in the know." Fact is, the owner of the bitch is the registered owner of the litter. Thats why I said "my ADBA 6 generation pedigree" has floyds name in front of Spook.
Why are you not defending your statement that Spook quit? Simple, she didnt. While I never have claimed to have spoken with Crenshaw or Floyd personally myself, I have spoken with Clemmons. Never knew Clemmons to breed for "beautiful" dogs either.
Stop dancing around "who the breeder was," and defend your accusation that Spook quit...

 

damn, I missed this. Two people dis-spelling the accusation Spook quit.

 

See funny thing is I don't have no dog books, They are one sides stories of ones opinion.. I was told by two different men that spook quit.. Mr frank from the carolinas and Red from Cajun.. I asked him when frank told me that spook quit.. He laughs and said son, if they told you about half them dogs that quit in the yards back then you probably shoot all your dogs.. O asked him if she quit he said yes but nobody expected her to be a great game dog.. You're not only person who knows people from the early 30s and 40s and they all have a story and views. You were told one thing I was told another makes no mind to me I don't own spook.. Funny you say I'm green but you're same person who said C'shaw bred around Bo and that he owned Jeep.. So who is the green one? So bc your adba paper says FB spook that make him owner that makes him owner lol, bro I just papered a litter we did 3 years ago and the owners name still says the same guy from Ohio who we gave the stud to.. Ask your old buddy who wa given Spoook as a pup, sure Clemmon's was and I'm sure Clemmons went and bred spook back to eli and far as him picking him bcsuse he was black please call Clemmon's and ask him and see what he says then come back and respond..

 

Someone just PM'd me and said ask the mod who posts interviews up here from old timers to post the interview of Clemmon's and it says right there why he bred to Eli.. I'm not sure if it's in the ABPT history section but I don't have time tonight to loom thru there but hopefully the mod can post the interview of Clemmons or his tribute so we can see why Clemmons says he bred to Eli

 

in regards to boze i was given this:

What was the best dog you ever owned? They ask me that all the time. It’s tough to answer, but I think I’m partial to my BOZE dog. I probably had a few that were as good, but I always liked him a lot. He won 27 rolls for me and he was always the smaller dog, but they couldn’t beat him. He also won one contracted fight. One time Jerry Clemons and Douglas Nirider brought a dog that was 19lbs bigger than BOZE and that big dog would bite through car tires. When we put them down it was a joke. BOZE was a fast, hard mouth dog. He would fight high in the shoulder and destroy a dog quick. During the day time he would usually sleep with the puppies around the house and I always thought he was a little shy, just like BLIND BILLY. One time he won a fight in just 6 minutes, that was in New Orleans. We had 10 matches that day and he beat a dog of Jerome Hernandez. He just wrecked the dog. It was no contest. BOZE was out of SCRUB and CANDY. After that fight, they claimed that their dog wasn’t conditioned. I don’t know, but mine was ready to fight. I matched against Jerome 3 times and won twice. Jerome was a dogman and hard to beat.

 

See, heres the difference. When I said Crenshaw bred around Bo, you proved me wrong. I admitted I wasnt a crenshaw expert, and in fact didnt care about jeep. Jeep or Honeybunch are not known for what I like in a dog. You say Spook quit, Floyd says she wasnt touched. Floyd said if anyone did anything other than breed Spook they were idiots. Who to believe, you or Floyd. Thats a tough one lol. Spook was bred on her first heat, meaning she was still a pup. I may not have bred a bitch without looking at her, but I'm not going to question Floyd or Clemmons, to be honest.
A few posts ago, you said Zebo x Hb breeding most or all died young, later you state she was bred twice to Zebo. You are either multiple people using the same handle, or just collecting information through hear say, since you dont have dog books.
Now, did you talk with Floyd, or was it mr. frank or Red from Cajun.. that now talked with Floyd? Are you referring to Cajun kennels (Floyds kennel?)
Floyds favorite very favorite dog, I can only look at how Boze was bred and say Boze was 75% Blind Billy.
Now I could perpetrate and say "I talked with Floyd, or I talked with Crenshaw," but thats not me. I have talked with Clemmons, and I have talked with people who if you call Floyd he will acknowledge them as friends, and not just fans or customers.
What does the studs owners name have to do with a litter (REALLY????), its the owner of the bitch that is registered as the owner of the litter. Maybe you need some dog books, this hear say is worse than reading a book. When people say something, they can always deny it in the future. If its something they printed, they are stuck to owning it forever.
With that said, there is nothing more to discuss with you on this thread. Its no longer about Black Angel, you cant admit you were wrong about Spook. You cant even get it right about Zebo x HB and how many times they were bred. Instead, you want to nit pick about "who the breeder was" and "what Floyds favorite dog was." All of that is just an attempt to deflect attention from your statement that Spook quit. Thats green...

 

I will respond to this, but not for dog discussion sake. When citing works of publication (which I guess you are saying this is part of a Floyd interview), its always necessary to give reference to the original publication, date, author, and publishing company, so people may verify information. When you simply post what appears to be an interview without those references, who knows how many times its been edited, through re-publishing, part of an interview, or simply fiction. The question fi=or this "interview" may have originally been what was your best performing dog, and it could have been Boze. Some people on the web have been known to "find" rare interviews, that are just fake. Since you have admitted to not owning any dog books makes me wonder, what resources are you getting this information from. You yourself could be posting something incorrect without even knowing it. I will say this Scrub is listed as being off Scrub x Red and not candy (oops) on peds on line. Of course I could just drag out some old pedigrees I have stashed away just to verify, but I never heard of boze being off Candy. Eli was Scrub x Candy...

 

Checked my official pedigree, Boze is listed as being of Scrub x Kandee. Kandee was a grand daughter of Blind Billy, making Boze 37.5% Blind Billy. Thats why its good to have to have books and documents...

 

correction, 62.5% Blind Billy. Floyds Candy and Kandee are two different dogs by the way
.

 

I'm just wondering how this thread turn into the history of everyline out there. Lol !

 

LOL too. Off the top of my head I would say it started when Chivo was posted after I said tight inbreeding didnt work. Then there was whats more important males or bitches. To be honest, Black Angels parents went like this, I knew little Gator didnt work out at his first place on the east coast, so he went to the west and did produce. I asked how he did out west, someone said he was cold. I just knew he didnt work in the east, not cold. Annie (Black Angel's dam), which is where I was going to go wasnt all that either. her breeder Bullard was waving the Black Angel flag in the Federal institution, claimed he got rid of Annie not only because she had no mouth, but she quit for him. He never said anything about her being a winner for however long he was in the same place with my buddy, but he did constantly pumped up Black Angel.. Then it went to and HB and Crenshaw. I said his yard was based around Bo, I was wrong on that one. But, I would still wager that Crenshaws best known dogs were Bo x Honeybunch, and that a majority of his later dogs had Jeep in them more often than not. Now, if that was true, whats the difference as just about everything he ran had HB in the pedigree? Bo. I mentioned Spook, someone said people dont mention her, because she quit. At the time I never heard it and asked where the information came from. Someone replied "its common knowledge." I checked, and it was a lie.
Long story short, this thread did go off topic and for my part sorry. When people on dog boards try and one up one another, it happens. But when you are waving the HB flag, and want to dismiss Spook because she quit??? HB was quarter Spook. When someome starts with "Crenshaw told me this" and "Floyd to me that", then switches his role to well, mr. frank said it and so on, come on man JUST STOP. Sometimes you feed a man enough line and he will hang himself. Then this thing he posted without citing sources or references to prove Boze was Floyds favorite dog (I guess thats what it was, no author name, date or source) listed Candy as Boze's damn, and not Kandee, was just the last straw. Off the top of my head I knew Candy wasnt Boze's dam, she was Eli's. so I dug out an old pedigree and posted Bozes real dam. Candy and Kandee are two different dogs! of floyds!!! So much for the credibility of that article, or attempt at an article.
Again though, sorry it went off topic. Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! I'm gone for the holidays!