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Bite Force

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by Trapdoor, Sep 3, 2009.

  1. Trapdoor

    Trapdoor Pup

    There seem to be some prevailing misconceptions around dog bite force. Especially surrounding the APBT.

    Put simply, research shows that large dogs bite harder than small dogs, irrespective of breed. Medium to large-sized dogs with a mastiff-type head bite harder than those with a pointier head (eg. Rottweilers vs. Alsatians). The APBT does not bite any harder than a similar-sized brachycephalic dog of another breed, and has around 15% less bite force than an Alsatian and 30% less bite force than a Rottweiler. Males and females have comparable bite force.

    Here is an excerpt from The Journal of Anatomy (2009) 214: 362–373.
    Cranial dimensions and forces of biting in the domestic
    dog. Ellis, JL, Thomason, J, Kebreab, E, et al.

    "Forces of biting are estimated for two points on the
    skull, approximating to the locations of a canine bite and
    carnassial bite, which are characteristic of prey dispatch
    and processing in carnivorous canids.
    First we develop general relationships between forces
    of biting and variables describing size and shape. Variables
    include measurements of body weight (BW), skull length
    (SL), basicranial length (bSL), skull width (SW) and indices
    derived from them (e.g. ratios of facial length and skull
    width to skull or basicranial length). The effect of sex on
    these relationships is examined. Then we tease out the
    interactions among size and shape by subdividing each
    into three categories: size as small, medium and large, and
    shape as brachy-, mesati-, and dolicho-cephalic (i.e. short,
    medium, and long headed).

    Overall, results indicate that BF increases as size
    increases, and differences due to skull shape may be less
    apparent in small skulls. In medium and large skulls, it
    appears that the skull of the brachycephalic dog conveys a
    greater BF advantage, resulting in larger bite force values
    for these dogs.

    Force of biting in domestic canids is strongly related to
    size, as quantified by measures of BW, SL and SW. The
    effects of cranial shape interact with those of size, particularly
    in small dogs, in which brachycephalic breeds
    appear to have lower bite forces relative to short-faced
    dogs of larger size."
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2009
  2. Trapdoor

    Trapdoor Pup

  3. JanneM

    JanneM Big Dog

    How come hyaenas have 1000psi bite when their heads are not that big?? I have always tought that biteforce has something to do with the size of the head.
  4. Inter-tel

    Inter-tel Big Dog

    there is noway to measure bite force in PSI. That said the old sayin goes 'dogs bite hard cause they want too' pretty much sums it up.
  5. Hyenas..are not dogs nor canines...but besides that...their heads are not that big???...lol....

    they get to bee 200 lbs...they are monsters..their heads look small in relation to their huge necks...
  6. Dream Pits

    Dream Pits CH Dog

    the test have a good concept but you have to test lots of dogs from the same breeds to get accurate results plus there is NO WAY to make a dog bite as hard as he/she can. so i agree 'dogs bite hard cause they want too'
  7. Robber

    Robber Big Dog

    That 1000lbs/sq in is why they can chase lions off of a kill - that and the #s game...
  8. Robber

    Robber Big Dog

    While that may be true to an extent(an English Bulldog can probably bite harder than a greyhound), I think it is well accepted by many in the know that dogs with too short of a muzzle(esp. lower jaw) do not have the crunch of a dog with a good moderate muzzle length.

    Of course, what Inter-tel said cannot be overlooked.
  9. TNK

    TNK Big Dog

    I'll take 250 psi of "steady" any day ;)
  10. gh32

    gh32 Premium Member Premium Member

    I pretty much agree with Inter-tel that dogs bite hard cause they want.I've seen a lot of stuff on bite force measurements and they don't always hold alot of weight with me at least because they usually only use a handful of dogs(or whatever animal is in the test)instead of several of each breed and then get an average.Another thing is as most here probably know there are varying degrees of mouth in APBTs as well as other breeds too I'm sure.Also there no way of knowing if the animals are biting 100%,90% or whatever.And if all the measurements were even correct,then you have to figure bite damage instead of just pressure applied.That would have to do with tooth design and the way the animal bites,if a dog just snaps or bites,shakes and rips.The snap would only leave holes while the other would damage more tissue.To make an example,kind of like alot of people try to figure power of a bullet,if one looks at the ballistics charts a .223 should be just as good a deer round as a .44 magnum(both around 1200 ft lbs),but ask any gunwriter and the answer is all the same,it's not.The .44 makes a bigger hole due to diameter and bullet mass and lets more blood out and more air in,resulting in quicker kills usually,but both will work if used right.An broadhead arrow has even less energy and still kills due to tissue damage and not energy.So measuring energy has little to do with measuring damage,But it's all interesting and gives people something to think about anyway.
  11. Inter-tel

    Inter-tel Big Dog

    my theory about the structure of a canines skull/jaw in conjunction to BF boils down to this. A stout beam and a properly place pivot point(folcrum) will produce a canine that will bite harder than one with a lesser beam as a general rule. Basic physics.
    I dont even begin to pretend to know what is going on in a canines mind that makes one individual have more BF over another sibling/s.
    Inherited traits play a roll but as individuals one sibling may not be able to break a bisquit while another can crush rocks.

    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2009
  12. Trapdoor

    Trapdoor Pup

    To the people above: All your answers are in the full article referenced in my first post, if you scout around on the 'net you may find a copy. Note that the article is very recent.

    The article describes a simple measurment of bite force. Simple. Not shaking, not fighting, not anything other than bite force as allowed by physiological constraints. I won't enter unintelligent debate on the matter, if you are still unsure after reading the whole article and references you can find the author's contacts in the Journal of Anatomy.
  13. TripleJ

    TripleJ CH Dog

    A dog can bite or it cant. Ive seen 30lbers that could bite as hard as anything.
  14. TNK

    TNK Big Dog

    I had a scatter bred bitch that chomped thru a 22ga stainless steel dish @ 13 months. She was all of 33lbs(cw)
    Never bred her,never knew her real history . . . . . ?

    Had another bitch the same size that would take 10 min to snuff a cat(no bite)but bred true. . . . . ?

  15. BustaH

    BustaH Top Dog

    Some dogs will keep biting until their teeth meet some will even shake when they do;)

    measuring bite force actually gets a person nowhere it could be said its the dog doing the biting not the bite in the dog.....:)

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