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awesome non papered dogs..

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by okeefes pit boss, Feb 19, 2010.

  1. Laced Wit Game

    Laced Wit Game Yard Boy

    i agree rally and that was the point i was trying to make earlier in the thread.
    i feel that a pedigree (official or hand written) gives you a "recipe" to follow if you chose to breed it.
    if you only compete with the dog but dont chose to breed the dog later, than hell who cares if it has papers or not (those can be hung!)
    not saying its ok to hang papers, but if its STRICTLY for activities that require such and the dogs a good worker, i dont see the harm in it.
    But i would NEVER (EVER) hang papers on a litter or the dogs being bred!
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2010
  2. I have an unknown, and he is a work horse. He is a great performer and has exceptional drive, but using him in our program is out of the question, as I possess no information on his background. Whether the history is on registration papers or hand written, I think that its important in order to maintain the quality of stock. I disagree that non papered dogs are more responsible for overpopulation than those that are papered. Just as many papered dogs contribute to the problem. Just because a dog is papered, doesnt mean its going to change the mind of people who are turning them over to shelters or putting them on the street.
  3. preme

    preme CH Dog

    rally you hit it right on the money !!!!!!!!!
  4. power

    power Pup

    30 years is a drop in the hat.
    Takes longer than that to be a serious dogman.
    I have been around the dogs twice what you have. Seen a lot, owned a lot, bought a few, sold a few.
    People have different ideas and goals for their dogs. Doesn't make one right or wrong. People do what works for them.
    In my experience I would depend more on a pappered dog. The papers might be false but you have something and most papers are close to the dog or completely false. The completely false papers are usually easy to spot.

    I bought a dog once. From a very well know breeder and judge. He conditioned and handeled the dog his first two matches. Made enough on the first match to pay for the dog and the next was profit. He went on to win 7. He was a pappered dog but the third generation was unknown.
    He was bred a few times and produced nothing outstanding but good honest dogs. I wouldn't breed him to any of my dogs as I still wasn't sure of him. Turns out I was right. He was finally beaten by a half staff dog. That dog was later killed by one of my dogs.

    If I would have known a little about the unknown dogs on his papers I might have known what dog to breed to him. Didn't find out his true bloodline until he was gone.
  5. Phyzzle

    Phyzzle Big Dog

    Well If you are working with fake papers you are a untrustworthy. You just said the dog is something its not. So how is that the best...Fake papers is worse than no papers...That just shows how dirty a person can be..
  6. Laced Wit Game

    Laced Wit Game Yard Boy

    like i said if you got a bulldog thats of unknown pedigree, i wouldnt see the harm in with COMPETING with some hung papers!, but under no circumstances would i ever breed an unregistered/unknown dog to my yard.
    doesnt necassarily make me untrustworthy, now if i was trying to peddle fake pups than thats another story.


  8. preme

    preme CH Dog

    i cull the same reg or not ... keep ahonest eye.........


    your right...and i attend more of them shows then a.d.b.a...
    but it nice to show people "proof" how your dog is bred..alot of people ask at shows for different rerasons..
    lthere are "few" nonpapered dogs that are really bulldogs!!..imo..papers all day long... Dont trust anyone..i know the people personally and saw the breedings go down on both of my dogs...but i still want my papers all day long!!:d
  10. power

    power Pup

    Proof on the paper is the best way. Without that you only have the word of someone who owns the dog. 2nd hand info isn't always good, really never and sometimes people do not always tell the truth. Especially if there is a $ to be made. Even have differences of opinion of people that were there in person to see what really happened.
  11. Bullnuts

    Bullnuts Banned

    If I was in the market for a dog (which I'll never be) I would want a dog from a breeder that holds a family of alike dogs Throwing consistency within ALL the dogs on their yard, Runnin just one line or maybe two that work well when crossed! I wouldn't care about registration papers as long as I could see with my own eye's that all of the mans stock is a family that look's, and act's alike, Of course I would have to at least hear from more than one source that this breeder lets out HONEST blood! Too many So called breeders don't know what they want! constantly bringing in the new flavor of the month, adding this and some of that, never really getting any consistency or a solid gene pool to pull from! Just names on some worthless registration papers!
    BUYERS BEWARE!!!!!!!!!!! It's hard to get solid stock, unless you KNOW WHAT YOUR LOOKING AT WHEN YOU SEE A YARD OF BULLDOGS! Papers should not have any influence at all if you can recognize real bulldawgs com min down from real breeders!
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 23, 2010
  12. Sampson1

    Sampson1 CH Dog

    ok im just getting into this thread and ive just scanned posts so if anybody already said it im sorry..
    but are yall saying that if pre1976 yall had a bulldog without papers that was all bulldog and proved game with some long matches yall wouldnt give him the chance to breed? atleast once? and lets say yall did and he threw straight fire so yall bred him again to a different line and again he throws straight fire..then what? would you hide him away and claim the pups were from a registered male or would you open up and let him take credit? and since he's proved his worth in the box and people know his name do you think they would get a pup off of him? im alil rusty on some of the history but wasnt Gr. Ch. 35 unpapered? and isnt it rumored that Redboy isnt actually Redboy but a stray picked up off the street cause the original Redboy died young?
    Im not trying to start conflicts as in this day and age im probably not taking a chance with a dog that i dont know where he came from but its something to think about...and i mean alotta people say breed best to best so what if the best isnt papered?
  13. power

    power Pup

    Gr. Ch. 35 was a papered dog, just not very many people knew where he came from. He was a battle cross, not bred for breeding.
  14. Sampson1

    Sampson1 CH Dog

    oh ok thanks i wasnt aware..but honestly what about the last sentence?
  15. JoeyNzoey

    JoeyNzoey Top Dog

    I agree with you! if the proof is in the pudding why do I NEED to make sure the family history is pretty or known? I know half the people disagree about breeding non papered dogs in the thread already but I guess this is another thing that separates me from the most. I already gave some input towards how I felt but it continues to give it a go, I am the type of individual who respects and takes chances with anything that gives me confidence and a good heart dogs or humans I see things that way and that way only. I go by what I know not by what I hear for the most part and if I am not accepted because I choose to breed well rounded and proven apbts that I don't know their family history well then I guess I already knew that was coming towards me. Another proof of why I continue to stay open arms towards non papered dogs are because not that I currently own one but I wouldn't have even given it a second thought if I truly needed papers and a family history. I knew well long ago even as an older child their are papered dogs and there are non papered dogs so which do I get? well so far I have left that to be concluded with the dogs in front of my eyes and it's always working. As far as the whole breeding stock and such of course it makes obvious sense to keep a linage/bloodline growing I would engage with this sure it would be my solid control in the project but if somehow something lands in my yard that is even better then something I currently own with a well known lineage and bloodline gene pool I just don't comprehend with why someone would send it to a shelter as a "mutt" or to keep it from taking a chance.
    So go ahead and disagree or voice something out to me I will still gladly accept a dog with a given chance but I am not saying everything needs to be bred these days but when you know deep down in your gut what you have why do you need to cull that feeling and step away?
  16. Blanco

    Blanco Big Dog

    Great post J&Z, I agree with you on this. I've read through this thread and in my eyes you nailed it there. JMO though...
  17. dazrik

    dazrik Pup

    90% you meet there have fake papers,like i sayed before even the (best kennels)works with fake papers

    i can buy a puppy i know both parents for 3 years now
    I knew the grandparents
    and on father side i knew the grand grand father
    there are no abda papers only e.p.b.c papers
    i have seen all pups fromthere breeds,i have seen them raised to strong/stable pits

    so what is better buying a pup from a adba kennel that is probely fake ore buy that pup where i know his history in rl???

    ofc breeders will yell there are no fake papers
    yeah right
  18. power

    power Pup

    Really it would depend on what you expect out of your dog.
    If you are into showing you will have to have papers.
    If you are into obedience it is a lot easier with papers.
    If it is a pet the papers do not matter.
    If it is a working dog it doesn't matter.
    If you plan on breeding your dog it should have papers.
  19. Sampson1

    Sampson1 CH Dog

    J&Z im glad you see it that way..I couldnt agree more. I'll give any bulldog the chance if i were to somehow accuire it..Papers do give me alil more piece of mind as far as the lineage but if i have the space and the dog brings the heat then who am i to say he cant live on my yard?if he lives up to the standards then and im absolutely positive he's of sound mind and temperment..then hell he's earned his chain:)

    Dazrik personally im not going to refer either but if it was me i would go with the pup that i know what he's parents really were and are. as far as ADBA papers go there pretty and I personally have registered dogs but i also own some unpapered dogs..( but i know how there bred)
  20. JoeyNzoey

    JoeyNzoey Top Dog

    thanks sampson 1 ;) glad I am not alone with how I feel and see the big picture regarding this you too Blanco.

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