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awesome non papered dogs..

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by okeefes pit boss, Feb 19, 2010.

  1. ohav4

    ohav4 Big Dog

    True I agree.. Just like a car.. When I buy one the first thing I ask is "Does it have A/C" But if it doesn't but it rides great and has low mileage hell... Why wouldn't I buy it for the right price. I aint sayin all un-registered dogs are good and all registered ones are crap. But its foolish 2 deny some good shit just because it doesn't come with toilet tissue.
  2. power

    power Pup

    A lot of people will buy a puppy. Very few, except for experienced dogmen, will look for a grown dog. The price of a grown, tested dog is quite high. The price of a pup is a lot cheaper. There isn't many people who sell a
    pup who will let the buyer test the parents before they buy.
    If you don't see the parents in action you will have to depend on something else. Papers are the next best thing. Even if you see the parents there isn't any guarantee they will throw pups compared to them.
  3. dazrik

    dazrik Pup

    and with papers you have that guarantee???
  4. PurePit19

    PurePit19 CH Dog

    I agree with that statement, big time. I wouldnt have bought the unregistered dog, but i agree with everything else you said.lol
  5. Phyzzle

    Phyzzle Big Dog

    True N.Y dose have some laws that don't make a bit of sence. But I don't sell a pup just because of paperwork. That's a mistake all together. Quality is not on paper. For example when hunting dose your paper work hunt or dose your dog do his or her job. It's hard for paper to hunt.lol.lol But I do agree with you their is a lot of Registered garbage. Some people see $$$$$ signs when they see a dog with a good pedigree..(STUPID)
  6. Phyzzle

    Phyzzle Big Dog

    Hey I don't buy a dog with out doing reaserch on it's back ground. But their are lots of people that don't know shit. They might see a Ch in the Third Gen and jump all over it. Again There is (STUPID) out there....lol
  7. power

    power Pup

    If the dogs come from a known bloodline that can be traced by any means the owner will have a little more knowledge about what the dog should do and not do.
    Sure papers can be hung. There isn't any dog today that does not have suspicious papers in its past. But you at least have something.

    Back in history you can find dogs without any type of papers that have championed out. You can also find crossbreeds that have championed out. There is one ch. that was out of a boston terrier/pit bull cross. Did great as a match dog. I don't think I would want any of his offspring.

    The pit bull became what he is by selective breeding. Breeding the best to the best is one way some people do it but it isn't a very reliable way to breed. Looking back in the pedigree to see what made a great dog, what the bloodline has and hasn't got, then finding a dog of a know bloodline that might produce a dog that will improve both sides.

    Without papers all you have to go on is what you see.
  8. dazrik

    dazrik Pup

    the more W you see in a pedigree the more people like that pedigree
    so what do papers say???
    even 2 top game dogs can make a crap dog

    and about bloodlines read this
  9. power

    power Pup

    Right. The more ch and gch on the papers the higher the price.
    There is a difference in handmade papers where a person can add whatever they want, these online peds that people can put what they want, and a pedigree from a recognized kennel club with ch and gch printed on them.
    To get a recognized kennel club pedigree with ch or gch on it means someone, or a group of people, knew the dog was worthy.
    Handwritten pedigrees with titles and accomplishments handwritten on it is a value to the owner only and just shows his, possibly onesided, opinion of the dog.
    A dog that has nothing could be a good pet, match dog, or mutt. There is no way of checking. Even if you see both the parents in action, which isn't very likely, doesn't mean much.
  10. rooftopdrop

    rooftopdrop Big Dog

    an experianced dogman doesnt buy dogs they breed theyre own thats y there exp.dogmen I know many but dont know of any that will buy one.rarely one will come along (grown,tryed and true that is too good to pass up)but its vry rare for a dogman to buy a dog.
  11. power

    power Pup

    Everybody had to start somewhere. Not everyone is born with a dog.
    Even those experienced dogmen will buy a dog to improve their stock. I can't think of a single serious dogman who has not bought a dog. I can't think of a serious dogman who hasn't sold a dog. No matter the line if you breed enough there comes a time to outcross. If you don't breed that many you are a hobby dog owner.

    Back in the old days the same dog could have multiple owners. Some would even buy back the dog the sold. Look into the history of almost any ch or gch. Most have several owners through their life.

    If there is a person who will not buy a dog they are not serious dogmen. Having a couple of dogs in the back yard does not make a person a serious dogman. It takes many years and many dogs even be considered a dogman. Becoming a serious dogman takes a lifetime devoted to dogs.
  12. im the one who posted this thread..from reading this whole thread..i guess ive come to the conclusion that not very many people really know what you got... even if you do have a papered dog that has great ancestors it dont mean that you have what you think you do.paper hanging is a real problem and how can anyone really know if they have what they are supposed to have..so like someone said i guess you find a bulldog where you find one with or without papers...
  13. rooftopdrop

    rooftopdrop Big Dog

    did u even read my post,! yes alot of men will buy one,i have bought 1 but that was 20 years ago. and he was grown and proven. as far as inproveing your stock with exp. comes a kinship w other dogmen iv had alot of guys give me dogs becouse they knew the dog would b in good hands.(everybody has to start somwhere) i wasnt talking about somone just starting out i was refering to guys in the circle,and the last statment...a couple dogs dont make a dogman I agree and I have more than a couple . i wasnt trying to rip on any 1 so dont rip on me.Iv been around for over 30 years and Iv been around the block a few times, if ya know folks just ask em if they been in the f.l. they'll know the name!!!


  15. dazrik

    dazrik Pup

    500-600 euro around 40 dogs names,5 weeks and i have adba papers if i want
    thats how much dog papers are worth
    i can buy a abpt pup without adba papers but i know his parents the parents his parents on both side and i know the grand grand father

    psst:even the best apbt kennel breeders works with fake papers
  16. Bullnuts

    Bullnuts Banned

    Maybe useless for Shows, confo, hangtime, Ect, But far from useless for real Bulldogger's Silly rabbit tricks are for KIDS!!!!!!!!!
  17. dazrik

    dazrik Pup

    there are more and sometimes even better dogs events then the ones where you need adba papers
  18. Pirbul

    Pirbul CH Dog

    For me, the use of the pedigree is to study the possible result of a breeding based in both parents and each family, genotype and fenotype (sp) you can guess how a pup could turn studying a ped and of course, if you know the dogs in them.
  19. Yahlee

    Yahlee Pup

    It depends on what you have the dogs for. I know guys who have spent thousands of dollars on dogs with papers and then a dog with no papers have stopped the papered dog in thirty (30) minutes. I don't know about you but If I spent that kind of money and my dog got stopped like that by a non-papered dog, I would feel like I wasted my money. I have also seen non-papered dogs that are also prettier than papered dogs. It purely depends on the dog you have in front of you. Papers are over-rated.
  20. rallyracer

    rallyracer CH Dog

    as stated- there is a giant difference between "not having" and "not knowing".
    my personal opinion is that i want the papers, so i can participate in conformation shows/sanctioned weight pulls. its not about breeding to me- in 20 years i have only bred 1 litter...and its certainly NOT due to having subpar stock-far from it.
    get your stock from people you trust- to make the papers or handwritten ped true.
    as far as breeding a dog of "unknown" lineage- its a crapshoot...just as breeding 2 "knowns" is a crapshoot, but alteast with the "knowns" you have a bit of a recipe to follow. i have an "unknown" here, but he will not be bred, no matter HOW good a dog he is. and that is my personal opinion, and how i choose to keep my dogs.

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