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Are great dogs made or bred?

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by Andre, May 6, 2019.

  1. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    True, I know someone who called his dog 'Lucky', just because he got so lucky ...
    btw. the dog was the last pure bred dog of an old tight bred family of dogs.
    But this is maybe a bad example, because it wasn't really so much about luck in my opinion.
    The dog was just bred tight and right. :-B
  2. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Back when things was rocking and rolling on the big yards it was easier to get good .
    slim12, c_note and DISCOIII like this.
  3. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    So, breeding is overrated ?

    Attached Files:

    BronerFan likes this.
  4. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    As I said before I lean toward made, and as I read the posts I lean a little toward bred. Then I think about what it takes to get one from 8 weeks to 'release your dog', and even the next step "black dog the winner", I start to sway back to made.

    In turn I have seen dogs that do well in spite of their human counterpart. That pushes me a little back toward the bred side of the get together.

    The I see a hard mouthed cur who has enough mouth and ability to win, and the guy that put just enough gas in the tank to get to the destination knowing at the next mile marker he/she would hang it up. This is a made dog. It is the winning dog that no one wants to breed to, and his offspring are only successful in their own backyard.

    I can see points on both sides, and can't really make a sure fire argument for or against either.

    I led in hell bent in one direction and with a little discussion can see some light at the end of the tunnel.

  5. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    I believe, in the end it's all 'made'.
    Better 'made' will give better results.

    Also 'bred' means made, it's a man made thing.
    A question might be ... is it just made or is it 'well made' ?
    It all begins with a breeding made or well made.

    I like bred dogs. I like well bred dogs even better.
    But how many dogs (percentage wise) are bred or even well bred ? I'm not talking about 'production'.
    What does breeding mean anyway ?
    A breeder should be breeding for a goal or towards a goal. No matter what the goal is. That's his own choice.
    The breedings he is doing are build up on his own opinion. The dogs out of 'his' breedings represent 'his' opinion.
    His dogs represent 'him' as a breeder. A breeder will raise or fall with 'his' dogs.

    I do not care about scatterbred dogs. It says 'bred', but scatterbred dogs do not come from breedings 'well made'.
    A well bred dog is 'well made' right from the start.
    Choosing blood ... the bitch ... the male ... how they are raised/schooled ... feeding ...
    So, the first step is a 'well made' breeding.
    2. step is a 'well made' dog
    3. step is a 'well made' show

    My conclusion: It's all about 'made', but in the long run, it does not work without 'well bred'.
    It's still all in the DNA.
    And the percentages will show true.
    What is the value of a scatterbred dog compared to a well bred dog ?
    slim12 likes this.
  6. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    Edith says: It's all in the DNA ... in both ... the dogs ... and the dogmen.
    BronerFan likes this.
  7. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    I would not go out in search of a scatter bred dog either but if they are exceptional performers they can be a spoke in the wheel as well.

    The very best female I have ever seen was scatter bred, as she was the definition of scatter bred. I am not sure I have seen a pedigree as scattered as her. She was a one in a lifetime dog with a story similar to Rushin' Bill's GRCH 35.

    She was bought out of the newspaper by a kid who in turn pawned her off on his grandmother. At 6-7-8 months old she would not stay in her 10X10 pen. You latch the door and she climbed over before you could get turned around. She would then come to my buddy's yard and run along his fence line trying to play with his dogs. He would come home from work, pick her up and carry her back home. This lady offered him Angel for free, with a 10X10, a couple bags of food, her papers and a nice insulated igloo dog house. He took the dog for the free stuff that came with her.

    He had spent a number of years buying up some 'well bred' dogs who were performing well for him. He kept Angel and said pretty much she would be a roll dog/punching bag for the well bred dogs. Angel grew up as sweet a dog as there has ever been. When she was about 18 months he rolled one of his dogs on her and in turn she did the rolling. Within a few months she had cleaned up the female side of the yard.

    When he took her out for his first it was RIP in short order. Her second was about 40 minutes with another RIP. Her third was about 50 minutes and again RIP. The kicker is within minutes she would hit the floor and do every thing from the bottom. Thirty or forty minutes later the other would plop.

    An exceptional animal who had contributions from all the major players over the last 50 years. She had a Mims influence with Snooty-Red Boy-Bolio. She had a shot of Cotton's Bullet blood thru Edward's Stoney bred to a Jeep Rascal dog. There was a shot of Molly Bee blood bred with Snooty and Little Ceasar. Some Rufus and Outlaw stuff from Mr. Hargrove. A little Boyles-Bolio as well. Some Eli stuff from Mr. Clemmons. There were a couple of dogs that had to go back six generations to find the recognizable dog/family.

    She was bred twice and out of 12 or so pups only had one that made it to the show. A number of game plugs and a handful of run of the mill cur dogs.

    Since I am not a breeder, and don't have that mental capacity (LOL), I would take a yard full of Angels over a yard full of well bred dogs every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    I will try to find her pedigree and post it.


  8. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    Nice one Slim.. Love to read that stuff!
    IMO paper never won a show!
    Seeing is believing!
    Dusty Road and BronerFan like this.
  9. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    LOL slim, looks like we got connected somehow. :D
    Writing more or less the same at the same time in different threads.
    With the big difference that your words always sound like pure poetry to me :-B
    A well made dog is hard to beat !

    oldguy, but thinking also might help. >:)>:)>:)
  10. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    You just had to get the dig in Stickler=D> I replied to a post from Slim, a post I rather enjoyed actually.. I never posted on this thread before because I pretty much believe everyone got their own ideas on how you get great dogs, so I don't have much to add anyway, but what I already told you in a PM is the acid test, the measure, the appraisal of a great dog can only come from working in the [ ] field.. That's when "seeing is believing!" and I don't give a fuck how much thought went into the paper that's behind it.
  11. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

  12. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

  13. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    James Crenshaw with Blackjack 2xw walking to the venue for his title show
    James Crenshaw & GR.CH.Black Jack.jpg
  14. oldguy

    oldguy CH Dog

    reids skipper and stedz like this.
  15. stickler

    stickler Top Dog

    Can be also called loose line breeding :-B
  16. c_note

    c_note CH Dog

    Is this in the rare pics thread?? Put it there too!!
    Dred Lok Kennels and kiwidogman like this.
  17. siccen

    siccen Big Dog

    For the most part I would say they're bred, born, then made. A combination of everything.
    PlugUgly likes this.
  18. siccen

    siccen Big Dog

    For the most part I would say they're bred, born, made, then sustained. A combination of everything.
    Had to repost since I couldn't edit.
    AGK, stickler and slim12 like this.
  19. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    This may have summed up 5 pages of babbling with a couple of short sentences.
    Well said.

    stickler likes this.
  20. slim12

    slim12 CH Dog Staff Member

    I'm all about winning, so I liked the first statement without the sustain part.

    Who cares about sustaining? LOL

    stickler and c_note like this.

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