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APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

Discussion in 'Staffordshire Bull Terriers' started by JBL, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    You really are thick as pig shot aren't you. I don't care about what names came first. The facts are the APBT is older than the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. You get show dogs down off performance dogs not the other way around. The APBT is one of the purest breeds there is.
  2. EBT

    EBT Big Dog

    In your make-believe world, that may be so. But in the real world - the one where physics and chemistry and biology apply - there isn't even a DNA test for the APBT.

    Look it up.

    Bwahahahahahahaha!!! Who am I kidding? Of course you're not going to look it up! You're going to sit behind your sticky little keyboard in your smelly little bedroom and write something like "The APBT is the purest dog on earth that hasn't changed in a billion years because I closed my eyes and wished it so and everyone else is dumb!"

    But for the rest of us humans in the room, if you want to do a DNA test on your dog to identify it as 100% APBT, you can't. There is no genetic database for the APBT genome anywhere in the world. It has so many other established breeds in its make-up - and in no particular order or balance - that it is impossible to scientifically establish. You might be able sequence a particular line of APBT, but as there are more than 100, where would you start?

    Well, most DNA tests on suspected APBTs start with genetic markers for the following breeds: the Staffordshire bull terrier, the American Staffordshire terrier, the American bulldog, the bull terrier and mastiff breeds. A suspected APBT will show up markers for any and all of these breeds: the Amstaff, staffy and bulldog being the most common sequences.

    So once again, science shows up ignorance. The APBT is not a pure breed - it is made up of many different lines based on a number established breeds which themselves throw back to many common ancestors. But hey, never underestimate the power of stupidity.

    After all, stupidity has the half-life of a half-wit - which in scientific terms is a very, very long time . . .
    Box Bulldog likes this.
  3. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    It's as pure as any breed out there you numpty. You seriously believe that the APBT came down from the Staffordshire Bull Terrier??? You have no knowledge or common sense if you believe that tripe.

    No breed on earth is pure but the APBT is one of a very few breeds that have had no other breeds added to the mix for a long long time.
  4. EBT

    EBT Big Dog

    Hang on, hang on . . . I think can predict this next post . . .

    <closes eyes and furrows brow>

    Dogboy69: "The APBT doesn't have a genome coz genomes are soft and my dogs are hard - I mean, if I had one it would be hard - and only those soft-shite show dogs have pussy genomes coz APBTs don't need them because their DNA arrived on a meteorite that crashed to earth and mated with a T-Rex and produced the angriest rock-hard-dog-lizard-mastiff the universe has ever seen - which is why all APBTs have big jaws and lots of teeth and no genomes and walk on their hind legs sometimes and rip other dogs to shreds with their razor-sharp claws and fly through the air and breathe underwater - Farkin-eh!!!!"

    Or something like that.
    Clay2017 and Box Bulldog like this.
  5. EBT

    EBT Big Dog

    Ah, fark me! He beat me to it! He was just waiting, waiting, waiting behind his sticky little keyboard all that time . . .
  6. EBT

    EBT Big Dog

    Yeah, mate. The APBT is pure and hard and hasn't been mated with anything else in a long, long time - just like you!
  7. EBT

    EBT Big Dog

    I apologise to everyone else. I will now stop. Sometimes, you know, it's just too easy to get carried away . . .
    Box Bulldog likes this.
  8. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    That's funny, I was hanging out the back end of your good lady while you was in the pen petting your game bred Bull Terriers.....
  9. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    You honestly believe the APBT came down off the squat little freak Staffordshire Bull Terriers, you are a funny guy I'll give you that.....
  10. bluedoglover

    bluedoglover Top Dog

    Y'all actin childish lol. The first dogs were mixes of bulldog and mostly terrier. The apbt come over here and melded with ebt and other breeds occasionally. The staffs stayed mostly the same until the KC messed them up. The Irish Stanford came about from game tested KC dogs and regardless of what anyone says they have ebt influence. The original dogs do not exist any more. They have all mixed a evolved. But that's not to say that apbt came from staffords.
  11. EBT

    EBT Big Dog

    DNA doesn't lie. If there was no Staffy in the APBT - that is, the 19th century fighting dogs commonly associated with the Black Country (though likely fought elsewhere the country at the time) that later went on to be homogeneously bred and recognised by the KC - their markers would not show up in the APBTs DNA strands.

    Saying a dog doesn't have this or that in its genetic makeup because it doesn't "look" like it is the height of ignorance.

    Stupidity is simply doing nothing about that ignorance - either through wilful stupidity (failing to educate oneself) or a basic lack of ability (no fault of one's own - it's genetic!).

    You either believe in science - genetic biology, evolution etc - or you don't. It's that simple.

    But stating the APBT is one of the purest breeds on earth is laughable. I live on a continent with a dog breed that's at least 6000 years old. The Korean Jindo and Japanese Akita are hundreds of years old. Greyhounds and Rottweilers are hundreds of years old. Mastiffs are older. The bulldog, the American bulldog, the bull terrier and the Staffordshire terrier are all older than the APBT. If they weren't, the APBT's genome would show up in all those breeds - instead of the other way around.

    On top of all this scientific evidence, there is a great deal of historical evidence, which I have already posted links to and are freely available at this start of this thread.

    The bottom line is, one individual refuses to educate himself, refuses to read the evidence or accept the science, and wants us all to believe he is not only an authority on the subject, but has greater knowledge and gumption than many of the world's top scientists and canine historians!

    He hasn't even provided a shred of evidence for his argument.

    bluedoglover, you're right - I am being childish. When a stubborn idiot clings to a childish argument with no foundation or merit, it is hard not to stoop to his level. It is perhaps all he is capable of understanding.
  12. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    You still don't get it do you, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier that we know today is a more recent, grotesque cousin of the old Pit Dogs of the British Isles (APBT)

    How this can't sink into that dense head of yours I'll never know. You really believe that the fighting dogs of England and Ireland that weren't in the Black Country were know as Staffs??????

    I know the world's most famous working Terrierman Brian Nuttall stated that his grandfather used small Pit Dogs from Northumberland for his terrier breeding programme. These were not known as Staffs simpleton. I suppose you better stick with your KC stories son......
  13. EBT

    EBT Big Dog

    You know, for a bloke who posted earlier in this thread under the banned username "Dam1985", you never really did learn anything - did you?

    So now we're debating whether the "name" Staffordshire bull terrier is older than the "name" American pit bull terrier", are we?

    Clearly we are, because the modern APBT - just like the modern Staffy - is not same dog it was 150 years ago. In fact, you couldn't even tell me what an APBT is because it has never been standardised (despite having a "standard"), has more than 120 different lines, and is a mixture of older fighting breeds including the dogs that were later standardised as the Staffordshire bull terrier, the American Staffordshire terrier (itself from the Staffordshire bull terrier), the American bull dog and - DNA tests have conclusively proven - bull terriers and mastiffs (bandogs).

    Indeed, the APBT is a mix of anything that worked at any given time and evolved from early bull dogs, pit dogs and working/guarding dogs from both continents as migrants made their way to the US. That many established US dog men used to work the wharfs in the 19th and early 20th centuries looking for migrant dogs and new blood is testament to the fact they weren't particularly concerned what their dog's genetic make-up was as long as they found something that worked.

    The APBT is probably about as old as the Amstaff is in terms of modern conformation - only an insane person would claim it is one of the oldest dog breeds on earth!
  14. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    You've lost me there old man????

    Who's talking about names??? I'm talking about common sense regarding the dogs.

    The dogs of today are doing the exact same job they were doing back in the British Isles, the dogs have evolved but they are still basically the same animals that were first shipped over all those years back. The KC Staff is the dog that as almost certainly had other breeds put into the mix to emphasise that grotesque look that the show people love.
  15. EBT

    EBT Big Dog

    You must think we're all as dumb as you. What kind of imbecile gets banned under the handle "Dam1985" and comes back as "DogMan85" to post exactly the same info in exactly the same manner in exactly the same threads across the site?

    And going by your latest form - being rude to almost everyone on these boards under the guise of DogMan85 - you should probably be banned again . . . just sayin.

    Oh, there are plenty more examples . . .
  16. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    Plenty more examples of what you pudding???

    You and that idiot Box Bulldog were the one firing the insults.
  17. EBT

    EBT Big Dog

    Are you still here BannedBoy85?
  18. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    Yes still here showing you up yet again.

    You seriously think the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is older than the APBT??????
  19. EBT

    EBT Big Dog

    Do you know why it's so easy to link you to your old, banned Dam1985 account?

    Because you keep posting the same stuff over and over again.

    So, how long do you think you will last this time?
  20. DogMan85

    DogMan85 Banned

    You can try and link all you like boy, I'm not the same poster.

    I'll ask you again, do you really believe the Staff is older than the APBT....

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