adding terrier blood

this is just a topic for a dissussion with the stafford being of bull and terrier mix and with show stock being widely bred from and not being tested or of an athletic ability or conformation.would the introduction of working tested terrier blood be of benefit to the short stocky show type we have to day. and would the outcome still be classed as a bull terrier or staffordshire bull terrier by most.and how many generations would it take to bring it back to its name of stafforshire bull if any.

 

after a cross is made, 5 generations on and the breed is seen as pure ,according to the KC. i have seen jrt x stafford and whipet x stafford, good dogs. but in my opinion you must keep the full litter of these crosses to weed out the best. and breed best to best .

 

i would agree jocko i have have been reading alot of comments on sites like this and alot of people refer to apbt as bulldogs but i dont see anyone give credit for the terrier blood in these dogs or the staffordshire bullterrier agility,speed,brains,tenasity, as some of the traits that a good bred terrier can and has added to the breeds and maybe adding some of these traits by careful selection back to any of these 2 breds could add what a working dogman was looking for by trying to outcross to other lines

 

when the terrier blood was added to the bulldog .the bulldogs were top notch dogs battle tested.And the terrior blood was from very good working game terriors.I agree with what has been said about the APBT, people call them bulldogs so much they do forget they are terriers.And i dont think any certain terrier was used in the cross.jmo.

 

as well as the top notch bulldogs i would say that the terrier added would have been top class in its field as well.when watching a game terrier work and see some game bull terriers work both have traits that are uncanny.when u see a terrier wrap its legs around quarry without regards to the outcome taking a full mouthed bite with rear legs driving the agility to move and twist and to shake with great strength.as well as watching this you can see a young inexperienced terrier go toe to toe and take great punishment without regards to the out come but gradually with experience watching the terrier attack with the same force but with more brains more ability to work without sustaining the injuries that it did in younger years

 

I got Jack Russell Terriers as well as APBT,s. So i am familiar with smaller terriers also.I love both.

 

jrts are great dogs they arent worked as much as black dogs (pats) or lakeland bred dogs are these days around the isles there are some good ones but the numbers are more in the favour of black dogs and other types and crosses a great deal of the black dogs are game terriers and same as wheten and beds working ones not kc show lines and would add great traits to and dog looking to put fire back into

 

I own a few jrt and let me tell you there some of the gamest little dogs out there

 

you dont gotta tell me anything i know there are (some) good jrts out there my point was there are alot more game black dogs than jrts i like jacks and have had many have also got rid of many for either not being up for the job,blowing hot and cold or sitting back to far of quarry when being dug to.there is nothing worse than digging to a terrier that is well of its quarry only to dig 6 feet or more and have to try and trench in six feet to get the quarry

 

I presented a book online here not to long ago that tells the origin of such dogs. http://www.archive.org/stream/newbookofdogcomp02leig/newbookofdogcomp02leig_djvu.txt ... combine that with what we gather from Flieg, Stratton, Colby and others.. .. ...

The first terriers ever registered were registered in the first dog registry in the world in the 1800s .. they were depicted red on red nosed snipey noses with ears half erect are, what we call fastlane type body and air about them... they were a result from inbreeding "pit bulldogs" .. (makes sense to me) .. This why depending on demographic region and slang it depends what your pit dog was like and was called.. Bull Terrier, Pit Bull Terrier, Pit Terrier, Pit Bull dog, Bulldog, etc etc.. Bull and Terrier .. ONE breed they are of each other as Alaskan Wolves and Eastern Wolves are.. .. Have to get all that political crap out of head, they all have propaganda.. NOW after that first terrier popped out they made crosses with that into all kinds of things such as wolfhounds, and spitz .. many like to think terriers were around before bulldogs and thats just not the case. The poppers got the dogs the the rich threw away which was the populous and inbred the white english terrier was a product of that populous.. They crossed it in then just as they always had, taking the pit terrier back to the pit bulldog .. the perfect mix were the bulldogs to beat.. I understand this very well.. Most don't. When the pit stock left England with the immigrants what remained had already been scrunity to conform to show and the pit stock was underground, in America it was legal and should have been sanctioned with cajun rules and we'd still see it today. 1976 is closer than 1890s.. as far as law and truth go. 10 generations to get all the kinks out of a ped of an animal or man.. We carry DNA material for use for 7-10 depending how tight certain lines were or how scattered they were, cause each block has memory for 7-10 generations worth locked in its DNA as well.

The Staffordshire is nothing less than a parliment driven propaganda that imposed the dogs to rename themselves according to the area mostly favored to them and be bred for show .. Black Tan and White is an original color of a bulldog as was dark red with white blaze and black .. They are the original pit bulldog and their fighting ancestors are the foundation to the first 40yrs in American game dogs. I found some game staffies in America right up to near modern times..
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=397485
follow back to "Wheatly Lad" and thats built on peddlers.. I've seen a few APBTs with peddlers in the building blocks like that to no surprise.. Who was this Peddler? ...

If SBT were still game bred you'd still have the vigor that most dog men slobber over, look how zesty your SBTs are by being scatterbred in many cases and no longer game bred at all. Game-bred in the sense of the word.

With all that being said, its eloquent proof that one just needs to be patient and have a good eye for dogs and they could breed selectively with out crossing into another breed all together .. There is not another terrier close enough except maybe a european bred patty.. I like them better than most in the states, they do resemble a SBT a bit. BUT you don't need to .. just look for and breed for the qualities you want in a dog. Plenty of ripped SBTs so you can see the TRUE animal and know what your getting.

If it can be done it has been done, find it .. or stay true to your line and breed the qualities of old out of your dogs. Look for dogs with strong or tight bred lines going back to the days just after the [].. I don't like cross breeding.. its all been done before. Take from this what you will and leave the rest I hope you start to look deeper into the origin of these dogs and get a better understanding for yourself. We can never know to much and truth is usually what people dont want to accept because they've adopted their own truths via political propaganda.

The SBT is a radical lil dog... with a world of DNA in there Great things.. . Great things.

 

I had no intention of telling you anything it is just something I have taken to saying I meant no ofence

 

If a guy looks hard enough he will find a proper stafford. There are fellas out there doig their best to breed good staffords and testing them in legal ways,hunting ect.Also if the dogs are not up to there standard they are removedfrom their yard.So for me no other breed needs to be added.

 

totally agree coop-dog and also each to his own.

 

thankfully i have never seen a stafford in the flesh that short and fat...

 

I think that both parts of APBT are equal.I think the terrier part provides allot of the intangibles(heart etc,) and intelligence.

 

this was just a topic to talk about when i wrote the tread in no way would i add terrier to my line of working staffords as i can use staffords from working lines if i need to breed or outcross.i have hunted staffords since a boy my father and grandfather before me which are still alive.this topic was simple a chat for peoples opinions.and my apoliges gypsyboy if i came across as to strong.

 

HaHa Pockets no need to be apoligizing,This could turn out to be a good discussion forsure.People who have strong opinions should also have thick skin.Nice pics of your dog as well.

 

thanks coop-dog it was just a thought to see peoples opinions as i in no way think the added blood would do harm to those who looked into using it with a strong mind in what they wanted the dogs in there lines ability to be.i dont use it cause i dont need to.but it doesnt mean it hasnt crossed my mind for the job my dogs do and for other jobs they are more than capable of doing.there are some yards out there with a great deal of capable terrier blood,game well tested blood that would add alot of traits that both hunting men and bull men would look for in there animals.terriers do work long punishing lives working under ground for hours on end with no reverse gear would be great to see what a 40 or 50 lb game bred pat would be like in a box lol

 

To patts in the [] now that would be interesting lol

 

patterdales are not nor never should be box dogs. they are and always should be working terriers.