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a true blue pit??

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by whiteyransom, Sep 19, 2005.

  1. pitlver

    pitlver Pup

    very well put
     
  2. SFK

    SFK Top Dog

    This is a true. Blue is a recessive trait of the black gene. So it would occasionally "pop up". However most of the dogs today have been crossed with Neopolitan Mastiffs to get the size & color. I also heard one of the peddlers down here in Houston, I shit you not; tell someone that he had crossed Weimeraners into his pits to get the color. If I had a litter & one popped up, I would'nt cull it just because of the coat color. But if it worked out for me I'd definately get some people scratchin their heads!:D
     
  3. thablacksheep

    thablacksheep Big Dog

    Stephanie T. owned Turpin's Blue trouble and from her own words, "He was a very game dog."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2005
  4. thablacksheep

    thablacksheep Big Dog

    here's another pic of Bllue trouble
    [​IMG]
     
  5. thablacksheep

    thablacksheep Big Dog

    rook's ghost is a perfect example of this. He's double bred off of Boudreaux's skull but yet came out solid blue
     
  6. Crosses or Mutts? What's in a name? A rose by any other name......

     
  7. Diesel

    Diesel Top Dog

    Merles... This is a topic which i have studied quite a bit about... the dogs are mutts.
    There are several breeds of dogs that carry the merle color pattern, but the APBT is not one of them. Is it coincidence that the merle dogs first gained popularity in the southern part of the US, as opposed to anywhere else in the country or even the world?

    some kennels with merles-
    http://www.bblessedkennels.homestead.com/homepage.html
    http://www.platinumkennel.com/

    The southern states are home to the Catahoula Leopard dog, a hog dog down south. This is a dog that has merle as the dominant coat pattern for the breed, and its common to breed these dogs to APBTs to give the dogs more tenacity and ability for catching hogs. This mix is called the Cathahoula bulldog... although the CB is also created by mixing CLDs and ABs. Its no secret in the south and explains why there was a sudden boom in merle dogs. I mean come on, to go from no merles to entire kennels based off of them, in a few years? Show me one merle dog historically, people (typically merle breeders) keep telling me they existed but i dont know anyone that has acutally seen one. They thought merle would be the next blue... but it wasnt to be, there was a huge stink raised when people tried to pass these dogs off as APBTs. Registries were contacted and threatened until they amended the breed standard to make the pattern a disqualification for the breed.

    The mixing of the breeds gave the mixed dogs the merle color as a dominant gene. So you could breed a merle with a pure APBT and get merle dogs out of it. If it were truely a natural trait it would be very reccesive and couldnt be passed this way. Both mother and father would have to carry the trait in order for the offspring to have a chance and then it would still be only a pup or two.
     
    thablacksheep likes this.
  8. SouthernDixie

    SouthernDixie CH Dog

    I'm glad you all are on the topic of merles. For some odd reason I was on puppyfind.com looking at pit bull puppies (no I don't want to buy, just bored at work) and came across merle puppies for $700. They were oh so adorable, but just seemed a bit odd to me.
     
  9. 440rider

    440rider Guest

    IMO it's not the color of the dog that raises ?'s it's the conformation. You can have blue bulldogs all day possibly through a resessive trait but I don't believe there is a trait that throws them at 100lbs and the conformation of a old english bulldog. I dont have dogs like that and to those that do so be it is my outlook on it.
     
  10. Amelcorn

    Amelcorn Big Dog

    Now I'm not a genecticist, but I do know alittle about dominate and recessive. What you're saying and from some of what I've heard elsewhere is that the merle gene is dominate, but it is also somewhat sporatic. If it was strictly dominate then my neighbors red merle wouldn't be here. Neither of her parents were merle, nor were any of her grandparents. So, that would make it hardly dominate and only slightly recessive.(big doubt there.) So, hows does that enter into your dominate theory?
     
  11. thablacksheep

    thablacksheep Big Dog

    I agree with you 110%. It just seems as if people like to debate on the "Blue dog"
     
  12. Defend2DaEnd

    Defend2DaEnd CH Dog

    Here is my uncle's only blue boy. His name is Freeker's Handsomly Blue I'm pretty sure he isn't a CH. But I know his parents are both black and as far as my uncle knows blue isn't in his genes. He isn't breeding him though.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Diesel

    Diesel Top Dog

    I have been looking for this article... me and this guy see eye to eye on this topic.

    this is a very well written piece.
    http://www.apbtconformation.com/merle.htm

    amelcorn- have you physciallly seen the dogs in question? Have you researched hte pedigrees and know for certain there were no merle dogs? I think its highly unlikely.. but hey, i have not seen every scenario, or every dog out there to know for sure.
    I stick with my initial post. they are mutts.
     
  14. Amelcorn

    Amelcorn Big Dog

    Yes and no I have seen the parents but not the grandparents, but that still debates the possiblity of the merle gene being dominate. In or for it to be a dominate trait 1 or both parents have to be merle. therefore it must be sometype of recessive. Now I'm not saying she doesn't possibly have something way back that wasn't an APBT, I'm just going by genctic facts. I do know that the only thing merle about her is her coloring. No blue eyes, no health issues, and looks 100% APBT ther are some bad pictures of her in my gallery. Now she is supposed to be of Jeep bloodlines. And I will honestly say that papers can easily be hung to make whatever you would like of them. That is something that I can't prove. Just a very nice bulldog that has alot of game.
     
  15. Diesel

    Diesel Top Dog

    I have seen litters from merle dogs where most but not all of the pups displayed the merle color. If you bred to non-merle dogs that carry the trait they throw merle dogs. SO if the parents were non-merle but carried the trait they would be merle. Its dominant recessive color. the trait is there but needs to come from both sides to be complete. It could easily be that scenario. I understand what you are saying, but the merle "pits" dont have the defaults... look at those links I put up... only a few of thsoe dogs demonsrate pigment lacking. Because the trait is a dominant. were it recessive the faults and defects that are common in mutated merle dogs would be there. With most breeds merle dogs that are products of mutating genes have issues. Physical defects, blindess, loss of hearing, sudden death, stuff like that... these dogs are fine they are just merle.. which tosses that mutation thing to the wind. there is no way to breed as many merles as there are without hitting some serious issues, if the trait is truely a reccesive mutation... impossible.


    as far as how the dogs looks... these are catahoulas-
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    a very similar build... its pretty easy to outcross your blood to a CLD, get the color and then breed back to an APBT to establish build again. They are very similar to begin with.
     
  16. rocksteady

    rocksteady I'll drink to that..

    Last I knew they could not 100% with certainy say where the merle came from
    It cannot be proven scietifically that a) it just popped up or b) other breeds were used

    Personally I believe its a combination of everything.. but thats JMO ... the APBT was created from several different strains of dog anyway...

    It seems strange that the ADBA will not register a merle but continue to register other dogs that have rumors flying of other breeds mixed in...
     
  17. Diesel

    Diesel Top Dog

    DO your research... you wont need a degree is phisiology or genetics to understand much of what you will find. I at first was open to the color but after reading differnet ledger and reports... I cant see a way for it to be a natural mutation in 99% of the cases.
    If you look at the breedings, pedigrees, the location of the dogs in the pedigree, and the way the color is passed from generation to generation. Its just REALLY unlikely that this color came of its own accord.
     
  18. Amelcorn

    Amelcorn Big Dog

    I'm not denying that they could be bred into then crossed back out with APBT. I have owned a LCLD. Much larger than most APBTs somewhere in the 80 to 100 lb mark. Much longer legged too. But yes similar in build structure. Like I said there is no way that I can prove or disprove what is in the genetic makeup of any dog. Not even with DNA. But I do think that some are quite pretty( not that that makes a bulldog). However most that I have seen(merle) looked like they were a cross. Not many in my opinion that look like an APBT.
     
  19. jasong

    jasong Big Dog

    ok so how did we get off the subject of game blue dogs and if anyone has them or knows of some great/good old ones.
     
  20. Diesel

    Diesel Top Dog

    I came into the thread reading about merles... I guess it did start with game blues huh?

    the only ones I know of have been discussed, and these are the first pics I have seen of those dogs. nice.
     

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