The Oklahoma Kid Earl Tudor Story

The 90s were full of those crosses ... strong dogs ... bones, jaws and a very strong mind. These cross dogs were no joke !

Maybe Colby liked the Irish dogs better, just like I do. But it never was easy to get the irish stuff, if you are not irish himself, especially when compared with the english stuff.
It's said he was often looking for dogs at the harbour ... and I'm not sure, if he cared that the sellers were the real owners or not ...
They were rare and hard to get. His main dogs were the english pit dogs, no matter if they had other cross blood in them or not. BT crosses ? Why not !?!?

Galtie was around 1910. What does Irish mean in this case ? Pure Old Family Red ? Heavy OFR ? Or just something bred in Ireland ?
How much of a cross was Galtie to his 'original' dogs ?
What's the difference between them english and irish dogs ? Just different strains ? Different crosses ? Different breeds ?
The english bred dogs seem to be down from Bulldog x Terrier crosses. What about them irish dogs ? Same cross ? Purebred ? Of what ?
The english x irish is always labeled as a cross. What's the cross in there ?
Even today people are doing i.e. Red Boy x Eli crosses and breedings like that. Well, the older guys might still call this (heavy) irish x (heavy) english.
Or what does cross mean there ?
What's the meaning of english bred and irish bred ? No need to go back to ancient dogs.

But the topic is about The Oklahoma Kid, and the ? was, if he used Staff blood with his dogs.
Another ? was, why should or would he do that.
And if he did, where is the blood ? Gone ? Still there ?
Dibo was a late starter, just like many of his offspring. Lots of cold dogs, too. You can read about it in the E. Crenshaw interview.
Inbreeding on Dibo probably was not the best way. Some fire was needed. And guess where it came from.
Does the fire come from the english dogs or from the irish dogs ? And why the hell ...

 

Yeah Earl Tudor got great dogs and bread great dogs from the top breeders around the nation. and absolutely he got plenty of Colby dogs as well as the rest of them whether or not they show it on their pedigrees and something else. it's a known fact even Marie Carver, the silver Fox, said and I quote, a bulldog just isn't a real Bulldog unless it's got some Colby in it....

 

good post.
I think Galti was a Irish dog.his pedigree states and the book,Edwards Galti and Edwards Gas were his parents and they were both imported from Ireland ,bred in the state's and a pup from these to was also named Galti.was owned by one of J.P.s friends :Henry Colligan.who J.P.later purchase the dog from to breed I to his own line.
Werther the Galti dog is a old family red nose is probably a separate debate.as I'm thinking lots of dogs from different parts of all over the U.K.had this colour...
Either way.I totally agree about all of the different lines being crossed together...what I mean is,I don't believe the common misconception that the Pitbull is just Stafford bread on American soil.and a hell of a lot folk believe this..but I mean I've always said they are a mixture of all the different strains of pit dog that was to be fond in the the British and Irish isels..and they never just originated from the stock in Staffordshire..which as you say dose not make them any less pure.witch is what I'm saying to...witch is probably another debate again lol...but at least every one on this thread seems to agree on!..lol.

 

Below is a game bred English Bull terrier of modern times.


Frisco sport APBTxEBT

Stormer STBxEBT

 

an old friend who has passed away ,out of Cades South Carolina ,Joel Kirby (rip) used to do some battle crosses.... Damn good dogs , but not a lot of consistency in producing good ones..

 

This is a interesting read, .http://www.villaliberty.org/legend.html

 

I'm pretty sure I'm on this guys FB friends list. Most of the BTs he posts you can tell they been worked. Beautiful dogs.

 

I knew the man who bred lehri he has no problems using showbred stock as long as it’s been tried out but it’s legal in his province of India.

 

You think there would be a market for proper bull terriers. I think there is some what of demand for them. Every one I know that has looked for one has came up empty handed. The best one I have seen around here believe it or not was at the pound.

 

I don't think I have ever seen a BT in person other than some puppy mill version at the pet store in our mall. Not a popular breed here.

 

That's a fine bulldog.

 

Same thing here. I have seen a few around all had that really egg shaped head. Some of them had nice body's and structure though. When I do see one I sure notice it. Very unique dog.

 

AGK you have bred many top quality bulldogs and you know what your dogs produce. I know its a kinda hard question to answer but what do you think the dogs would be like if you bred that Bull Terrier Lehri to lets say your fine female pumpkin?

 

Thank you. That's a really nice complement. I appreciate that but I'm nobody special. I couldn't say what would be produced. I would never do something like that as I feel, it would be downgrading my future dogs gene poole and would unravel everything everyone who had part in my dogs lineage for the last many, many moons worked so hard to create without needing to add some other breed of dog.

My theory, if I had to answer this question, is this,

It could very well make an explosion happen in the gene poole. The hybrid vigor in those offspring would probably be off the charts doing a breeding like that. Maybe most all of the 1st generation offspring making it to the square and doing ok and even possibly a few straight up freak monster type dancers in there too.
However, when I go to breed this first generation offspring, fizzle, pop, done.... All quit or won't even start up. Just some mutts that look one way or the other.

I guess you could hard cull, work, breed, repeat for quite some time and maybe get some decent dogs here and there but I just can't see on a genetic level, one creating a line of successful cross breeds that will compete at a high level consistently against an already perfected breed of dog that has been #1 at that task for a couple hundred years. Even if you only breed back to APBTs with that first generation, it will come down to the law of averages. I don't feel it would work out favorably for my dogs. Many breeds have come and gone over the years that were created to be wardogs and very few even can stand a slight chance agaisnt a good bred true APBT at the same weight. Most others can weigh upwards of double+ the APBT and still get spanked. Especially once scratching starts.
I guess I just wouldn't even waste my time trying to do something like that.

I'm from the school of thought, if it ain't broke, don't go trying to fix it. Lol.

 

.......great post man!

 

Bull Terriers in general are poor dogs for the pit , if they ware any good people would use them , I doubt any serious breeder would add any other breed to a strain , if they wanted hybrid vigor just cross to a different proven line of APBTs ,,

 

.......well said!

 

Why did you think they used them in the old days as a cross dusty ? ... think its cos they had limited access to good yanks ?

 

They say the staffs had a better bite than alot of yanks so you could understand that cross but what would the english bull bring ?

 

I don't think Bull Terriers have good or hard bite , I think any crosses done was usually someone with Bull terrier bitch and bred some SBT , the SBT ware a much better dog than the Bull terrier... but bite and ability , APBTs are far better